Issues of The 2016 Election - left vs. right

There's been plenty of rhetoric by the cons already, with 17 candidates spewing plans for the direction of this country. Let's list their issues....

#1 Has to be kicking out the Mexicans and building a wall across the border. Cost $200 billion, which Trump says he'll make Mexico pay for.

#2 Probably destroying the Iran nuke deal. Alternative, war. Cost, four times more than the Iraq war.

#3 ISIS, Trump wants to go back to Iraq, fight ISIS and take the Iraq oil fields. Cost, war with Russia and China.

#4 Destroy the affordable healthcare act. Cost, 11 million people going to emergency rooms not being able to pay.

#5 Destroy Social Security....they've been at it since it was created.

#6 Destroy education...dumb people are easier to herd.

#7 Destroy the EPA....giving corporations open season on polluting the earth.

#8 Repeal equal rights for marriage.

Liberal America is on the opposite side of all those issues. And the cons are trying to tell you that there's no difference between the two sides, so there is no sense in voting. What a con job!

 

#9 - destroy labor unions

#10 - shift more of the tax burden to the poor

#11 - ban most if not all abortions

#12 - restrict birth control

#13 - more guns everywhere

#14 - put more drug users in prison

 

It's beyond reason of any kind, for con supporters to think that if those issues happen, it will solve America's problems. The only logical conclusion is, that the remnants of the confederacy are still out to destroy this country.

 

All Faux News talking points...

 

It's in every state, unfortunately.

 

I don't support either side. They both have plenty to answer for and neither seems to be overly concerned with making the lives of Americans better unless they can score a buck from it in some way. This is a LONG discussion, so I have a LONG set of answers based on my own opinion and what I have seen in my life:


#1 Is about more than just Mexicans, it's also about the flood of peasantry coming in from central America. If there was not such a path in place, aided BY Mexico, we would not have had the pitiful surge of unescorted children, few with appropriate vaccination histories to enter ANY developed nation. Another aspect of this that is ignored is how many non-Hispanic people are also sneaking into the country including violent Jihadists who are not coming here for jobs and the "American Dream". Then there's the Chinese "Birth Tourism" practiced way out in the open in California. What nation can possibly continue to thrive if the most basic protection for the citizens is so blatantly ignored by the government. We don't need new laws, which is what Trump seems to want. We just the existing laws to be respected. Without laws, what are we?

#2 The US has substantial responsibility for letting the nuclear Genie out in the first place. As for Iran, I'd wager they already have what they need for weapons, plural. It will change the balance of power in the middle east. Something I think the middle east should be sorting out, not the US and Russia (as well as design assistance from North Korea who has made substantial progress on smaller, low-yield nuclear weapons that while not necessarily able to flatten a city, can still make it into Pripyat for decades).

#3 I have friends from Syria and North Africa who can't return home because of ISIS/ISIL. If they go home they have only 1 choice, join the rebels or join the government (Army). So they remain refugees, scratching out a living in Turkey, Germany and France while they wait. This is another example of how US meddling has destabilized lives for a buck. But I am not ashamed of Americans for this, we were duped. Bush 1 was made into a 1-term fool by Saddam Hussein because all he saw was a chance to score points and dollars from his creepy CIA chums. But it didn't work out for him so it went on hold. And like a father handing the rifle to his son to bag a trophy buck, GW finished it. While opening up a massive middle eastern wound that has the world hating Americans. To be fair, Clinton kept the lid on the pot by paying bribes throughout his terms. When GW took office, the bribe money stopped, and the US was attacked. Providing the perfect "excuse" to mobilize. I doubt Trump understands the dynamics enough to take on ISIS without creating yet another mismanaged catastrophe that costs American lives and lines the pockets of the "defense" industry. We don't NEED a huge military, but that's exactly what Trump is suggesting.

#4 I don't see the ACA as a success. Probably because my deductibles are so high that I have to plan months in advance to see my doctor, who I did get to keep, but only because so many others bailed out entirely. I was dumped by my cardiologist, spine doctor and even my physical therapist. I admit that health insurance has been a mess for most of my adult life, but I see insurance as a scam across the board. It's a shell game and as a veteran I have seen it play out before. Now the whole nation gets the same kind of government care that I used to get at the VA. Back in the 80s the running joke about the VA was going in with a broken arm and coming out with a vasectomy. It's impossible to roll the health insurance (and no I don't mean health "care" at all) industry and pulling the plug on the ACA overnight would be a disaster. This is one place where nobody has a plan or an answer anymore.

#5 I doubt I'll ever see a dime from Social Security. I have felt that way for about 20 years already. I can't put the blame on either party as they both have used it as a cookie jar. I will say though that if the Bush 2 plan for letting us push our Social Security out to the stock market and personal accounts had passed, the subsequent housing bubble and 401K collapse would have been far worse. So as I see it both sides are carving up this pie and plan to leave the Americans who are the most vulnerable and unable to defend themselves to rot in the streets. After all, who has family that wants to take care of "Old People" these days? Old People are now the national enemy for leaving the current generation in a lurch. Right?

#6 Education has been in the gutter since the 60s as I experienced it. In the last 20 years I have had to shore up the education of our children considerably. So instead of getting the Tudor McMansion we wanted, we have two middle class homes, one built in the 60s, the other slightly newer and both worth less than $80k. We did this to chase the work while we invested in the future of our children. If need be, we'll liquidate both to get our kids through college and jump start their careers. Education is just about the only thing that can't be stolen by the government anymore. I personally think that education should never have become a political issue at all. It should stand on its own merits and the instructors should put a full check on their religion and politics.

#7 I think if we dial back the whole "Global Warming/Climate Change" argument and concentrate primarily on pollution, we'll make more progress. Pollution can be easily measured and often seen, smelled or tasted. Inflating it into a global construct has taken it away from people and placed the issue into the hands of the global elite who dance with it. I went to many pollution protests in the 70s and even did some dastardly things to polluters that I will never admit to. But it got results on the ground floor without having to beg a politician. That's what I'd like to see return.

#8 I just wish the government wasn't in the marriage business at all. The only reason they are was to prevent white people from marrying black people, that's it. Now it has been infiltrated into our tax code of all things. I went to a gay wedding in Glden Gate park back in 1980 and I figured that if these two guys could get a minister to sign off on it, what business is it of the government? I say NONE!

#9 I think Unions are destroying themselves by failing to modernize. They still employ the same tactics as they did in the 50s though at least now they also represent minorities and aren't trying to keep workplaces all white anymore. But they don't represent modern Americans very well anymore. There are fewer automotive jobs, fewer factory jobs and fewer food jobs, all on the unions watch. Why isn't there a union for doctors, engineers or newscasters? And why do unions insist on using the word "fight" on every page of their literature? It's old fashioned thinking and their control structure still has that mafia feel to it. Even Hoffa's kid is in the game as if he was union royalty. And why in the hell are unions involved so deeply with politicians? They should be dictating terms to that bunch, not taking them to dinner.

#10 The US tax system is a farce. The top pay a lot, but the bottom still has to pay when they barely make enough to survive. A simple means test proves this out. In the last few years I have paid enough in taxes to feed 6 or 7 families each year. And I don't dodge them, I wouldn't dream of it. But working as I do with wealthy assholes, I routinely hear about their "strategies" for hiding money from Uncle Sam and I'm often disgusted by it. There are ways to shield their condos, gold bars and even boats from responsibility. At my income level that would only be possible if I cheated. But I don't, I will not give them the satisfaction of being able to haul me into court for anything. One thing I have learned about most of the wealthy people I ave known is that no matter how rich they are, they want more. Even if they have to squeeze a nickel out of each employee. The IRS is controlled by the most greed-driven people in the nation. They'd hurl the bodies of the poor into generators to keep the printing presses rolling. It's beyond disgusting. I doubt Trump can solve this.

#11 People have been aborting children for probably as long as there have been children. The government getting involved is just another way to score a dollar from the issue. This should only be the domain of doctors, not senators.

#12 Again, this is a medical issue, not something congress should be talking about.

#13 I own guns. In both homes I live on the edge of the sticks and have been scared shitless by coyotes, possums and a rabid racoon. So far I have been fortunate and not had a home invasion, because I will defend my family with every weapon I own (I have an excellent Gladius that so far has only been used to trim a hedge). I don't hunt but the 2nd amendment isn't about hunting at all. It's about keeping the government under control and enabling our evolutionary right to overthrow to by force if it ever threatens our freedom. I'm also not a "gun nut". I don't do competition shooting and have not fired any of them in years. They are just a machine to me and won't be used unless they are actually needed. In both places we live the cops are few and far between. We'd be a perfect setup for bandits, rapists and theives. I'm not of a mind that a machine causes problems for people but that people cause problems for people. I don't know Trump's position on guns unless he's trying to make money from them. And I'm fairly certain he's surrounded by them 24/7.

#14 This is also a place where the government should not be. I lay this issue at Washington's feet, both parties. Drug laws are just a way they can score money from addiction, which may actually be normal to the human condition. I don't see either side doing us any favors here.

 

Well, I see nothing changing if the Republicans get in. I wouldn't call them conservatives, since most of them will forward the same big government socialist policies we have seen under Obama for the past eight years.

The only thing that changes in politics is the rhetoric. Politicians always say they're going to do something during the campaign, only to the the exact opposite once they're in.

The 2016 elections are irrelevant to me. I will not be voting, just like I haven't voted in the last presidential election, or the one before that, and the one before that.

 

I read about this in the paper this morning. The opposition supposedly believes that relieving Iran of sanctions will inevitably lead to them gaining nuclear weapons. This doesn't make sense to me because we would be watching them under the Iran Nuke Deal, wouldn't we?

So what if we offer them economic empowerment? That isn't going to lead them to refining a nuclear program.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMJC1PTmsw

 

So fast but says it all. Anything to hamper efforts toward a peaceful arrangement? It really honestly sounds like a good deal and they're trying to stop it for no good reason.

It's terrifying.

 

inb4 "that's what a con would say."

 

This morning on CNN, a GOP strategist said that republicans are for the uneducated, because they're getting crushed in today's society. With the GOP out to destroy education, they'll have a lot of people to help. :dizzy2:

 

Why not vote for a third party just for the hell of it then. At least your vote is supporting something else than the 2 big parties then. I'm sure there's something reasonable to support, even though they might not get a majority.

 

Because not everybody hates the Democratic Party. We've gone through this several times.

 

Well, that is not the issue in my comment here or the post I was responding to. Rat says he sees more use in not voting at all. It's not about going for the democrats because they're the 'lesser evil to save what's left saving' as we talked about in a different thread.

 

He's explained a thousand times that he thinks all politicians are the same, and that... Oh, never mind. You've read it.

 

It's still the best way to rape a democracy, even though it is not working as good as we would like. Imagine if every person that's apathetic about voting would make their vote count!

 

The real problem is the vast numbers of stupid people that DO vote. Then the apathetic compound the problem by letting them chose those that run the government.

 

That's how it seems to you because you don't like their choice I say the problem is not that they vote, the problem may be that some of them are misinformed. Some of them genuinly and fully informed support the party you piss on though and that is something that is supposed to happen in a properly functioning democracy.