Prior to the 9/11 attacks that brought down the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center in 2001, I never thought much about Muslims, in general. To me, they were simply people, with their own culture and heritage (certainly I never had reason to fear them; in fact, I've always been greatly interested in Middle Eastern history, legends, and stories) As I was in the Border's Book Store on the ground floor of the WTC when the first plane hit (I was then working in lower Manhattan), I, literally, was just below where hundreds of people had, in the blink of an eye, been blown into oblivion, amid fires and explosions. Thankfully, I survived that horrific day (but still carry the mental scars from what I saw and experienced that day) Now, suddenly, I found myself terrified if I saw a Muslim in traditional garb; one morning, I was heading for work on the subway, and a man wearing a turban got on at one station. Fearing that he might have a bomb on his person, I got off the train, and waited for the next train heading downtown. Had this been before 9/11, most certainly I would not have gotten off the train, nor even given the man a second look. All of a sudden, I was leery and uncomfortable if I encountered a Muslim. After suffering a breakdown, which caused me to be off the job for several months, I gradually "came around", and then came to terms with the fact that there are religious fanatics, and those who are highly delusional, in virtually all ethnic groups....how could I single out just one group, especially that I began to witness killings and acts of terror caused by "home grown terrorists", folks who simply looked like everyday "people next door" Americans. The old saying then came to mind: "Appearances are deceiving". Think of the thousands of Muslims who have immigrated to the United States, men, women, and children, fleeing terrorism in their own countries, not tomention social injustices, to many to list. How ignorant it is to abhor an entire nationality, or religion, because of the warped, hate-filled mind of extremists, bent on bloodshed and massacres. In my town, within sight of Manhattan, an Islamic center/mosque opened about a decade ago; no great catastrophe befell my community, nor was there any issues that might have transpired, but did not. Of course, there WAS opposition from some at first, but, thankfully, that more or less faded away. When I see how many mass murders have taken place in this country in recent years, not to mention the tremendous surge in all manner of hate crimes, I have since seen that murderers and terrorists come from all over the world, and can be of any race or creed. To me, Islam is simply a religion, like Christianity or Buddhism. As my late mother always would remind us: "There are only two kinds of people in this world, good and evil." How right she was. Think of how much we could all learn from one another, if we could simply banish ignorance, intolerance, and violence towards others.........
My thoughts exactly. The problems only started when the west, particularly America, started meddling with the east, often for oil and mineral trading. When a country is divided by centuries of tribal conflict, supporting one side is bound to have consequences. When you read about groups living in the caves, you need to ask yourself, why were they there in the first place and was the west involved. The books by John Pilger, particularly 'The truth about democracy' make interesting reading. The reason that Muslims living in the west has become a problem is largely to do with their church. Their religion has no hierarchy, such as bishops and other leaders, so anyone can open a Mosque. As a result, the rich owners become victims of extremist groups blackmailing them into allowing radical preachers, often with death threats to their family back at home. By fear and ostracising the everyday decent people, WE simply make the problems worse and the evil takes a hold. Then things can only get worse.
"Far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020." If you're afraid of Muslims, you're afraid of the wrong people. The Escalating Terrorism Problem in the United States
Your mother had a point, but we must be careful in deciding which is which. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't that the same John Pigler who has been railing against U.S. support of the "neo-Nazis" in Ukraine in their war against peace-loving Putin? And before that was accusing the West of pursing a war of aggression against Syria and its Russian and Iranian allies? Yeah, right. The U.S. and its allies are the source of all evil in the world and only the Ruskies can save us! Pilger wrote in The Guardian (May 2014) that Vladimir Putin “is the only leader to condemn the rise of fascism in 21st-century Europe”. To the contrary, I happen think Putin is one of the most dangerous fascists in the world, inching out his buddy The Donald, and Pigler is gaslighting us with pro-Russian propaganda. I guess that makes me another dupe of the global capitalist conspiracy. For articles questioning Pigler's loyalties and claiming he's a troll spouting Russian disinformation, see: Fall of a Journalist: John Pilger and the Russia-Syria Disinformation Activists - EA WorldView Victim Putin is surrounded by the evil West in the bizarre world of John Pilger Putin’s Megaphone We must confront Russian propaganda – even when it comes from those we respect | George Monbiot The Trouble With John Pilger’s The Coming War on China Ukraine crisis: Is Russia waging an information war? Pigler ranks with Tucker Carlson as one of the more prolific Putin apologists, bringing news to the alternative universe in which "war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength."
You could do with looking into Ukraines primeminster and his history. Maybe into his party and their history and also into things like azov. Russia is actually huge and actually has had people of different faiths and cultures living in. Some of them even talking different languages as people blend from other regions and countries. Allot of muslims in Russia as well as Christian and people of other faiths. Did anyone ever see ufc fighter khabibs meeting with putin, and what was said to him, was nice to see. Personally I think some of the media after the Ukrainian and Russian conflict are full of bs. I like to look at some of the information and independent news and documentaries in the 5-6 years before and leading upto to the conflict to get a better idea of some of whats going on. But this was a thread on islamaphobia which is a different subject. To Grey Guy great opening post man. Wish more people were able to adapt and move forward like you have. Its also great that your still here, and even after living through what you did first hand have had the heart to understand that evil can come in all forms and shapes. Oh by the way im not sure who the guy was you saw on the underground tube, but its usually sikhs who wear turbans. Sikhs are a totally different religion. Just thought id mention that. Peace to all
Ukraine's prime minister, Denis Shmygal? What about him? The Azov militia's far-right leanings provided fuel for Putin's propaganda machine to try to link Ukraine to "neo-Nazis" as a justification for his invasion. So what do you think we should be looking into? Have you looked into the Wagner group lately? BTW, where would we have seen Khabib's meeting with Putin? The U.S. is actually huge too, and has people of different faiths and cultures who were getting along together pretty well until the AltRight and "Great Replacement" fears came along with the rise of right-wing populism--i.e., Trump's political base. I think much of this is politically driven. Trump was able to exploit Islamophobia to get into the White House, but was unable to get the courts to uphold his blanket ban on Muslim immigrants. The imam in my community has been proactive in P.R. with the local police and citizenry. It still has a ways to go. I showed a friend a pen given to me at a tour of the mosque. He asked: "Will it blow up?" The U.S. bears a certain responsibility for Islamic terrorism. The father of Salafi jihadism, Sayyid Qutb, was radicalized by a visit to the U.S. in which he attended a Methodist social event at which he was shocked to see men and women dancing together. If he had only gone to a Baptist social instead, history might have been different. It is possible that common political causes will bring Muslims and Christians together, as they have in Michigan. Conservative Christians and Muslims there joined forces to support a ban on gay and trans books in public schools. Conservative Muslims join forces with Christian right on Michigan book bans A large part of the problem is ignorance, coupled with a tendency to commit the fallacy variously known as the association fallacy, fundamental attribution error, or hasty generalization, in which characteristics or actions of some members of a group are attributed to all members. Americans don't know much about Muslims. Anytime the U.S. experiences tensions with a Muslim country or a terrorist attack by Muslims, some poor Sikhs are bound to be roughed up, even though they aren't Muslims, just because the guys wear beards and turbans. Few Americans are aware of the major differences among different sects of Muslims, which are at least as great as those among Christian denominations.
Sikhs are some of the nicest people on the planet and totally family orientated. This includes looking after their parents in their homes, rather than pushing them out for the nanny state to take care of. Many or the guys started work at Heathrow airport when they left school and continue until they retire. They almost run the main services at London Heathrow and during my 12 years working on a project there I made several friends. One guy wanted to plan me a journey across India by rail, stopping off at villages along the way to stay with his extended family and friends. Certainly not something that anyone from the US has ever suggested. LOL
"The number of Americans who believe the use of force is justified to restore Trump to the White House increased by roughly 6 million in the last few months to an estimated 18 million people." ‘Anger and radicalization’: rising number of Americans say political violence is justified Muslims should be the least of your worries.
But Muslims the world over know a hell of a lot about Americans. In 2004, Iraqi irregulars in Fallujah killed 4 U.S. corporate mercenaries from Blackwater. In an act of collective punishment, the U.S. surrounded the city of 300,000, almost all civilians, and reduced it to rubble. American eye-witnesses reported seeing civilians machine-gunned by U.S. helicopter gunships while trying to escape. The depleted uranium and white phosphorous munitions used by the U.S. left Fallujah with a higher incidence of birth defects than Hiroshima & Nagasaki. In 2006, a U.S. drone attacked a madrassa in Chenegai, Pakistan, killing 80 people, 69 of which were children, because they didn't like the teacher. In 2015, a well-known, clearly marked and well-documented hospital operated by Médecins Sans Frontières in Kunduz, Afghanistan was obliterated by a U.S. C-130 gunship, killing 42. Witnesses reported seeing staff machine-gunned as they fled the building, where patients burned to death in their beds. Islamic extremists sure as hell aren't the only terrorists in this world.
The Iraq war is a good example of the role of ignorance and associative thinking. One of the justifications given for U.S. involvement was alleged Iraqi involvement in 9-11. The Muslims involved in the incident were mostly Saudis, with a couple from the UAE, one Egyptian, and one Lebanese; no Iraqis. Bush even admitted this publicly. But Cheney continued to insist, without evidence, that Saddam was behind it.
At last, someone with some common sense speaking the truth. My personal experience was of a young woman and her baby from Iraq, being brought back to the UK following the killing of her entire family as you described. The local authority put her in a high rise flat in London, then realised that the flat had no water, gas or electricity in the early hours of the morning and I was called to sort things out. After connecting the supplies and sorting things out, I called in and agreed to remain with her until social services arrived to take over in the morning. The memory of that day has remained with me ever since. I was later told that the fears were of that poor girl commiting suicide. One thing that I remember her saying was that if the UK and other NATO soldiers wore different uniforms from the Americans, the Taliban would not target them. What an utterly crazy situation. Hardly surprising that Tony Blair resigned. Their is un unproven rumour that when he agreed to join Bush in the military action, our late Queen was not amused. We will never know the truth, since communications between our royal family and government are never recorded or documented.
It pays to be wary of ANY religious proponents and their dogma---some more than others. Some will ostracize you if you don't tow the line, some will rob you of your hard earned money, some will fuck your children and some will kill you for your thoughts or words. I assume many are decent folks providing succor to true believers.
well.. I'm not a scholar on much of anything, so I'll just say that - outwardly - humanity has advanced technologically but remains rather the same as we were 50,000 years ago. we're territorial, prone to violent outbursts, lazy in body/mind and easily influenced. and we try to control/blame others BECAUSE (in general) WE LIVE IN AN ALMOST PERPETUAL STATE OF FEAR. It saddens me to think that a perfectly wonderful sacred tradition - designed to make sense of our existence and lead us to a sense of 'self' even as we're part of the collective whole of existence - has continued to unravel and self destruct. I'm speaking of the Zoroastrian - Judean - Christian - Islamic monotheistic tradition. All share the same stories of creation, floods, etc.. Each builds upon the other; adding depth to the original message. Yet there's always those who get stuck in the mythical details rather than the greater message and fear that to even consider an expanded depth of understanding means they're abandoning what they've been taught is the ONLY truth. Instead of trying to really understand another belief system, they (we) tend to dismiss it offhand; saying we already understand and -as - as elucidated so well by Pete Townsend when Tommy (in his rock opera of the same name) was attacked by converts to his system of self-healing in the finale as the rebelled saying "WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT!" We so often hear the term 'jihad' nowadays. We let talking heads on nightly 'news' shows define it for us. Yet what is it, really? originally, it's a 'holy war' within ourselves. to inwardly destroy those parts of us that are unbelieving/unholy/unfaithful.. ie: infidels.. to put them to death if they do not convert to a purified self. that's Islam. In Christianity, Jesus says "get the out of me Satan (darkness).. there's a story of his inwardly-directed war of self-purification while in the desert. but isn't it interesting how such 'personal' and 'inwardly-directed' conflict results in outwardly-directly hostilities and hatred? I know thus thread of discussion is about Islamophobia but the same principle applies to racism and suspicion of different cultures. (how quickly we allowed hatred turn America away from all things French because they agreed to join us in Iraq ONLY AFTER EVIDENCE OF WMDs was actually found.. how quaint.. looking for evidence).. yet we're we're so eager to throw under the bus AMERICA'S FIRST FRIEND and I might add - the reason we won the Revolutionary War. but why let facts, deliberative reflection and "Love Thy Neighbor" get in the way of good old-fashioned hatred. Like I said: we haven't come very far as humans other than developing technologies. We're actually regressing as 'humans' as we mostly seek pleasure and leisure. All efforts seem measured by external self-enrichment. "MEism". Inter-connectivity with others and self is atrophying.. We been to re-"member" ourselves and humanity while we still carry a distant memory of what life was like when people still talked face to face and 'tried' to live our neighbors. and maybe when our religious leaders are drumming up hate toward others, step back and think for ourselves.. remember: if Christians, Jews, Muslims get along too well? the religious leaders lose their power over us.
You know that "Sharia Law" hysteria, that was largely focused on some sinister operation in Dallas or some shit? I saw a youtube video on that where they went to the place and it was a tiny office in a strip mall where a very well mannered clergyman explained that what he does was counseling for muslims who were worried they might not know how to practice Islam in the context of this new culture. Now I'm an atheist, so I don't care for religion as it is practiced, but I love religion as fiction. That's why I LARP being a Monk all day and all night. I can appreciate the beauty of the stories, in other words. Like Jesus Christ Superstar is my VERY favorite musical. At one point in my youth I practiced something like Ramadan, and it has given me a LOT of willpower to have been practicing fasting so long, and now of course I am delighted to find the peace and comfort of fasting and celebacy and the freedom from materialism that comes from imagining the idea of a "vow of poverty." I said I was an atheist, not that I wasn't spiritual. I studied Islam a lot. it was a good way for me to culturally bond with Iran, since my mother was born in Tehran and I never lived there. Not a big fan of Nation of Islam. Those guys I went to an interfaith thanksgiving at an episcapalian church and they did a militant chant which was the least spiritual thing about the whole affair, and they did not bring any food. They brought tracts. They brought free information. I mean those guys were not friendly. I don't think I even saw any of them eating our food! The Sikhs were very beautifully garbed, gentle, friendly. The Hindu Guru blew my mind because he sent a vibe out and I felt it and I could tell everyone else felt it at the same time and I was a pretty insensitive kid at the time, to vibes and all. Islam has a lot to teach anyone. There's spiritual truth in all faiths, whether there is a god or not, you know? One thing that really annoys me is the Jack Chick tract mentality people who claim that "Allah" is a "Moon God." Well, that's strictly bullshit. "Allah" means god. And the Moon God that was worshipped in the Kaabah was called "god" but his PROPER NAME was actually "Hoobool." You see any Muslims going Jihad and crying out to Hoobool? Neither do I. Muslims are just people like anyone else. We all got good thing about us and bad things about us. I really admire anyone who is spiritual enough to fast for spiritual reason, and Ramadan is some REALLLLLLLLLLY strict fasting for most folks. The term "Mullah" in reference to an Islamic clergyman is "Doctor." That is because clerics are forbidden in Islam. So, you know, due to the hypocracy and all that, it is understandable that some of these crazy Mullahs are giving people like Kenneth "tube full of demons" Copeland a run for their money! But you can't hate anyone for their faith or their lack of it. We're all just trying to figure it out. We all want to be good. I might never see any kind of afterlife but I want to die with a clean conscience, you know? It won't matter at all, after I'm dead, but if I only get a few seconds, I want to love myself and thank this body for getting me through this life. I wanna say, you were good to people and they loved you for it. Die with a smile, you know? I've had DTs before, I know how terrible your life can be when you're near death. I don't want all the time I have left on this earth to finish off with anguish that isn't physical. I got good friends of all faiths, although I must confess I enjoy the company of Pagans the most. I got a bit of a problem with the patriarchal nature of all those Abrahamic faiths what calls a god "Lord." Nobody is without a teensy bit of bias that may have the potential to grow into a bigotry or prejudice. That isn't how to walk the path, you know. I can walk the path even without god. wouldn't a god be like a parent, who would want you to eventually grow and walk the path without him? I could respect a god like that. I can't respect a god that just wants you to praise him forever and ever. Sounds like an egocentric jerk.
Arab Christians also refer to God as Allah . I recently seen a video done by a Christian scholar. This Christian scholar for some reason went to some ancient Greek codex and did some complex formula that really made no sense to me. But some how through this formula and this greek codex he started making videos spreading to those that listen that Allah means 666 some how. I was rather baffled and thought does he even know that even arab Christians use the word Allah to refer to God ? And if he even thought of that before spreading videos like that. I was wondering how he would try to justify the information he was putting out if the arab Christian community seen what he was doing and asked him what he was playing at,an if they would think he has probably lost the plot. By the way muslims do use a number usually associated with Allah and its actually 786, seems the guy was afew digits off or just purposely made it 666 so he could continue his agenda. Its quite interesting to see how information and media can be used to manipulate and be used as almost a weapon to pit man against man while the greedy fat cats get richer. In most cases those they manipulate and use will even make them pay for the privilege. Quite sad.
