Is there such a thing as a Christian?

That is a fallacious assumption that in the abscence of an alternative that it must therefore be true.
I'm not making this stuff up, nor is it my personal opinion. Research it, learn how to properly conduct scientific research and the maybe you will see it just simply does not stand in the light of harsh analysis.

I'm not trying to espouse some alternative because as I already stated
I DON'T KNOW, but I do know and am confident that evolutionary theory as it is currently taught and portrayed is simply wrong. Can't put it any other way than that.

I don't have to have an alternative theory to know and understand the glaring holes and inaccurate conclusions present in the theory, all of which have been shown based on scientific evidence.

You keep thinking that if it's not white then it must be black. The world doesn't function that way.

Geez, and you would call Christians narrow minded and un-educated?

 

evolution: any process of formation or growth; development:

pb- i think you mean darwinian evolution. physical adaptations being passed on to offspring, as in the case of selective breeding, is actually evolution. still, organic life springing up from matter (unless that matter is actually alive as well) does seem pretty far-fetched.

thank you for the quotes. i will be saving them for future reference.

 

for the record, i'm pretty into lamarckian evolution.

 

Aside from those quotes, how do you describe all the experiments and observations that have made evolution such a popular theory?

Lenski's E. Coli experiment; Garland's mice; these lizards; evidence in our very DNA.

There have been experiments that give evidence for evolution for almost a century now; and you dismiss it with a few quotes?

 

any chance that slight variations in solar radiation could spark sudden changes? (maybe this needs another thread)

 

I did state "as it is currently taught and portrayed" in a couple of different ways.

Simply there is no solid, convincing evidence for
1) life spontaneously springing up from inorganic matter, as you stated
2) the crossing of one species to another leading up to man

I don't have an alternative, but the prevailing, popular idea of evolution as embodied in the two statements above is not scientifically sound nor supported by the evidence.
If anybody doesn't agree with that then do some un-biased research outside of a religious context about it and try to prove the theory correct.
People have been doing that for a looong time and many of them are quoted in my previous post. Read it and judge for yourselves.

 

I am aware things like evolution and the big bang have shortcomings, but thats really all you've been saying.

I am aware, just like science is, that the theories could be wrong. But you are not giving evolution any credit for what it does attempt to explain, which is quote a lot.

There is no explanation for anomalies within the theory because understanding is a process. If it wasn't, we would already have a book called "EVERYTHING" that explains everything everywhere, and people would still be asking why.

 

if someone showed up at my door and predicted several things that would happen later that day, and they did in fact come true, i still wouldn't believe him if he told me he knew whether or not there is a god.


edit: or how life came into existence, or which evolutionary theory is true (if any), etc.

 

Those are examples of the adaptation of a species to it's enviroment.
Not the same thing whatsoever. Those lizards were still all lizards. It didn't say they evolved into geese does it.

Please show me experiments that resulted in the creation of a new species by means of evolution.

 

Do you think they proposed the large evolutionary timespan so people couldn't test it or because the numbers were feasible.

 

There ya go man, you finally got it.
You were, as do many, using evolution and the non-acceptance of it as a reason too bash Christians as being ignorant. I just wanted to show that evolution ain't all that, and requires just as much faith and disregard for the facts that you claim a belief in God entails.
Thats all.
Not out to convert anybody, hell I'm still sorting all this shit out myself.
But lets at the very least be honest about shit regardless of personal inclinations of belief.

:cheers2:

 

More because we don't see it happening, have no real direct solid fossil evidence for it, therefore it would make more sense logically that it had to occur over a very great time span in order to account for the LACK of evidence. Not that is was some type of thought out deception.

But that is solely my opinion.

 

Thats not just an opinion though, the timespan over which evolution occurs is the proposed account of the "shortcomings".

Evolution is regarded as fact because conclusions like these are feasible, considering the age of the earth.

 

we should just wait till those aliens we thought were gods come back to check on us and ask them some questions.

13:21 And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: 22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

33:9 And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses. 10 And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door.

 

The timespan really isn't what makes the theory unfeasable.
There are many facets to why it isn't a feasable theory.

All I can say at this point is go research it more yourself.
You aren't going to accept anything I say, nor do I want you to.
I'm pretty well talked out on this topic and anything further would be redundant.

 

I find evidence for the collusion of individuals in developing new species. Initially
simple symbiotic organisms join so elegantly as to form new individuals. Our bodies consist of a variety of organs who's form and function is so radically different as to appear as alien species to one another. The liver looks nothing like the skin for instance. Our bodies are an agglomerate of individuals. Specialized cells joining forces. From the simple to the more complex. Perhaps instead of the incremental development of large creatures, we have increased collusion of small creatures.

I've watch winged insects the size of the head of a pin. They are diminutive to the umpth degree and yet they are complex organisms. They find others of their kind in open space to breed. They motor through the air on wings.
They come equipped with circulatory, muscular, and nervous systems. They can see. I get the sense that very large events occur in very small spaces. There are different cosmoses of scale.

 

interesting.

perhaps this could include events such as the development of new organisms in our digestive system to handle the digestion of beans without incessant flatulence. yup, that happens if you eat beans consistently over a relatively short period of time. an adaptation that is actually upheld by "foreign" organisms living within our body.

and don't forget the mitochondria.....

 

After considering specifics, I'd like to know why you don't agree with evolution.

There has been documented instances of speciation and im completely convinced.

It seems its as true as the earth orbiting the sun.

 

Did you read the quotes posted and maybe look into some of the work cited? I posted those quotes because they covered pretty much the range of problems with the theory and seem pretty straight foward as to the scientific reasons for the theory's failings.

If you can provide me with the references to the documentation you speak of, I would love to look at it. Not with the express intent to disprove it, but rather to expand and further my knowledge.
If I come across something that solidly and convincingly supports the theory, I'm never afraid to say "I was mistaken". I ask the same from others.

As I always say, it's all tentative and subject to change. I do not firmly cling to any belief or theory as all of life and science subject to change.

 

Do you guys think it's necessary for a christian to dismiss the evolution theory? I'm just wondering since I thought there were other threads about evolution vs. creation.