Is the Qur'an the Word of God?

There may be some cultures that did believe the Earth was flat.

I honestly do not know of any?

Do you?

It seems to me this belief of a ''Flat Earth' has more to do with presumptions of commoners or perhaps 'artistic maps'.

Take the Roman Scholars for an example - Not only were they perfectly aware the Earth was round,, they had even calculated the circumference with reasonable accuracy and even theorised there must be some land on the other side (Now we know the America's are there).

Cabdiraz.. you should know your Arab history. Mohammeds world boasted some of the most skilled Doctors, Astronomers and Scientists in the ancient world.

 

I am familiar with that but I was just suprised of hearing of the fact that romans knew the world was round, they learn you quite different in school.

 

For Aristotle, the Earth was round. So it remained for perhaps 1,000 years. Aristarchus of Samos (310-250) measured the size and distance of the Moon and Sun. He also placed the Earth in orbit around the sun. Archimedes of Syracuse (280-212) argued against this on the soundest of principles: parallax. If Earth orbits the sun, then there should be an apparent shift in position of the stars relative to the sun and this had not been observed. Archimedes did not deny that earth is a sphere. Eratostenes of Cyrene (275-194) measured the circumference of the Earth by comparing shadows on the first day of summer.

I wouldnt be surprised if there were plenty of uneducated people with their own theories, but to the best of my knowledge - most all cultures have known the Earth was round or Spherical.
Im pretty sure the Babylonians knew the Earth was Round.

We know some Romans were trying to calculate the circumferance of the Earth too.
They were underestimating it but had the right idea.

Often this 'Flat Earth' story is based on a Myth that Christopher Columbus somehow 'Defied' the Church and proved the Earth was Round.
This is a fake propaganda story designed to validate 'atheism'.

Christopher Columbus was so aware the Earth was round (and it was not even a question to anyone anyway) - he WAS GOING WEST TO INDIA.

Cabdirazz... Im not surprised at your school.
Your School undoubtedly taught you that the Islamic world became the centre of all skill and knowledge after Mohammed.


Honestly, when is the Islamic world going to discover, invent or produce ANYTHING??

 

I can think of all the art and architecture that exists all over the world. Does that count as producing something worthwhile? And if not, then what's so different about their work and Christian and Jewish works?

 

I really do not think of Art and Architecture all over the world.

Of course, you really expect to see SOME contributions from the Islamic world.
Islamic Websites like to list a series of ancient mathematics and physics discoveries made by ancient Islamic scholars.

They dont say much about how these scholars derived most of their scientific knowledge from the Greek and Persian libraries the Mohammedans took over (usually after killing anyone standing in their way)

But dont worry about that... lets look at our modern age.

[and believe me Im NOT talking about 'hit movies' and 'cola' either]

Asians have contributed astonishing amounts to civilisation.
Technology for starters!
But Asian countries have produced astonishing SELF accomplishments in skilled work-forces, mathematicians, scientists and tremendous artistic influence.
Marital Arts have swept the planet as both 'sport' but also as ways and means of health and meditation.

European cultures have changed the very way of life on the planet with industrial innovation, scientific enlightenment and maybe most notably - transversing the globe in discovery of other cultures.

Believe me... Im not saying all these things have gone unabused either. Im just saying they produce new ideas, new products, new discoveries.

Now lets take a trip over to the Middle-East. The 'Islamic World'.
Try and find new medicines or medical procedures that are NOT from 'Western Cultures'?
Try and find automobiles, planes or trains that are NOT from Western or Asian Cultures?
Try and find a world acclaimed sport brought to us by the Islamic world?
Heck! You would think Islam would be known for a 'AK47' or a 'Beretta' or some kind of weaponry??

Really.. your hard-pressed to find anything 'Islam born' that is of any signifigant acceptance or influence on society.

Even OIL discovery and production is credited to Western nations!

Dont get me wrong.. there are a few.
Hashish has definately influenced the world.
Ok.. Scimitars are pretty cool unfortunately Islamofascists use kitchen knifes to slit innocent civilians throats open.

How about Literature?
Meh.. Salmon Rushdie is a great writer.. but unfortunately the Islamic world banished the one heralded Islamic writer they have.

OH wait.. Circumcision!

That was wildly popular in the United States and Canada and many parts of Africa and the Fillipines [Americans still love it!]
Female Circumcision never really caught on outside the Middle East but did make some great inroads into Africa!

Mind you.. Male foreskin amputation in the USA is more directly attributed to Judaism, so that doesnt really qualify as an 'Islamic Invention' I guess.

How about Architecture?

Yes, Mosques are beautiful and the 'Dome' structures are renowned around the world.
Unfortunately they are not exactly 'influencing' the architectural world and no one is really looking to emulate or learn from the designs.
(And the Romans perfected Dome structures anyway)

I gotta tell ya.. I had a 'Donair' and some 'Baklavash' (sp?) and they were AWESOME!

And nothing will beat my favourite of all favourite treats ... Halvah in a Can.
[If you dont know.. i suggest you find out.. its sweet pureed sesame paste - and its delicious!]

 

Salam!,
It is very nice to see that you consider yourself the servant of Allah!, indeed we all are slaves of Allah whether we believe it or not. We live because of his mercy , we die because of his mercy, if we do anything it is because of his mercy, He is the ultimate end, He is the light at the end of the tunnel. He is life, He is death. He is Allah , the all powerful lord of this universe and beyond. May he bless you and me with all the virtues of a good soul. May he shine in our hearts always and take us to his paradise at the end!

 

That post was beautiful

Namaste,

Diana

 

Oh thanks

 

Where is Algebra from? don't answer toon or sg. where did the architects of the 200 plus gothic cathedral throughout europe get the 'gothic' style from? same: toon or sg, zip! When europe was using roman numerals, and therefore could not even do algebra, where did they get the books that had zero in them. (no zero in roman numerals)? The concept was hard for them to grasp, there was resistance to this new "non number". If it is nothing, how could it be a number? Where does the finest linen come from, the finest rugs? I will give a clue, where does Damask come from? bt n sg, still don't reply, please, cuz you both have already said clearly where they could not be from, cuz they hadn't contributed anything. Where does alcohol come from? How about Abraham, the patriarch of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.....where is he from?


All from the place these eurocentric, ethnically challenged, deaf members said nothing notable came from. Their own european heritage owes much to Arabia. As does astronomy, since


In response to the 'they got it from Greece' rebuttal, which is possibly true I must ask a few more things. Where did the great minds of Greece like Pythagoras, Plato, Herodotus, and so many more, state was the source of their science skills?
Trick question, not Arabia.

I will wait till another member posts the answer to those ones.


stan grossmanQuote:
Originally Posted by Brocktoon
Honestly, when is the Islamic world going to discover, invent or produce ANYTHING??


i agree...plus the koran is made up by mohammed to promote his warfaring propaganda


Brocktoon and Stan, you're views are crystal clear, and a tad ignorant, in my view, to be very generous.

Hence my desire to be spared your reversal, excuse, reason, whatever, cuz your answer is right there, above ^^^^

 

So really the only thing we have from you DarkGuard is this 'Number Zero' thing.
[which somehow you now believe means ALL algebra, math and physics becomes attributed to Islam?]

That and the fact that some Architectural techniques were gathered from Mosques.

Personally.. I see a lot of evidence the ancient Persians and Arabs were perfectly great contributors to the world.

Since Islam has taken over - I dont see much really?

Especially in the last 200 years.. when almost everywhere else (and especially the European world) was revolutionising the planet with discoveries, new science and technological innovations, manufacturing etc...

.. What the heck came from the Islamic world?

Someone actually took inventory on everything Osama Bin Laudens Al Quaida used to work and attack the USA...
Almost EVERY single item, technique and service they used, from Jeeps, Motorola Cell Phones, Weapons, Printers, Faxes, Internet, to Transportation and including Airplanes were ALL Western Inventions!

Now watch.. because this is important.....

in the MIND OF THE ISLAMOFASCISTS... THEY are supposed to be the ones blessed and rewarded by Allah!

To THEIR MIND.. Allah is supposed to be rewarding THEM and the West is NOT to be blessed by Allah..

[pay attention here BlackG]

So.. 'Therefore' (in Their minds)... whats the explanation?

Western technology, medicine, innovations etc MUST THEREFORE BE ANTI-ALLAH

Right?

So 'Therefore' rejecting manufacturing, modern technology, modern architecture and anything 'Western' IS GOOD!

You are helping to carry out Allahs will!

After all... if these things were good, then they would have come from Islam and not Satans 'Christendom' right?

Now do you get it BlackG?

 

Brocktoon, hahahahahah



all we have is the zero,


ya



no big deal huh?



did you even go to school?

 

I think so......let me take a shot.


You are a satan worshipper?

 

'Allah loveth not the aggressor.'


hey mike, have ya read it?
guess where i found this quote?

 

BlackyG.. It would be more helpful if you contributed some new idea or comments, instead of poorly delivered attempts at rhetorical insults.

Thanks

 

"My school" is an ordinary non private, non islamic school in Sweden so why bother to teach us what you just mentioned?
And it is true, the islamic world was the center of all science for a couple of hundred years ago, arabic was used similiar to the english language today. If it wouldn't have been because of the arabs progress in medicine, math, chemistry and atronomy I don't think the world would look the way it does today. There is this [funny] story that happend somewhere in Europe around this particular episode. Some europians had asked an arab doctor to come and see a patient wich had some injury on his leg, so this doctor started treating his patient and then a french soldier I believe came in and said: Do you want to die with two legs or live with one and he drew his sword and started smashing, cutting, slashing, striking and choping this leg until blood sprinkled everywhere and the person died and the stunned arab said something like: Here we have christan knowledge of medicine"

WHY? Why should their be such a great need to produce or invent all these things? The distinction between you and me is that for any normal secular being like you Mr Brocktoon this world is your abode, an englishmans house is his castle it was said while It wouldn't hurt me to be extremly poor or live under hard circumstances because this is not my home, I see this world as nothing more than a short brake lasting a minute or two until the department to the herafter starts, small restricted pleasure. Now when I come to think of it, If I would become poor than I would only concider this a test and move on, it's better to be without any money then to be rich and greedy anway. If anyone would provoke me, hit me, imprison me I would only greet it with a smile and If these people would go to the extent of killing me in a horrfying way such as feeding me to the sharks or something they would only make me a martyr, how excellent!

13.26. Allah increases the provision for whom He wills, and straitens (it for whom He wills), and they rejoice in the life of the world, whereas the life of this world compared to the Hereafter is but a brief passing enjoyment.

 

This Michael is taken from the bible:

"Now kill all the boys . And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." 31:17-18

The Rabbis says as is also written in the Talmud about this verse, christians may see it different: Said Rabbi Joseph, "Come and take note: A girl three years and one day old is betrothed by intercourse.

Now for the words taken from narrations from the prophet(may peace and blessing be upon him): Do not kill any old person, any child or any woman" (Abu Dawud)

And from the Quran(interpretation of the meaning):

5.8. O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as just witnesses; and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice.

Extremly cowardly of you to speak about a matter which you know nothing about.

 

Cab.. simply amazing how you avoided every answer and even managed to disguise a blatant insult as some lesson.

Please consider the following:

The Islamic world was NOT the centre of Scientific knowledge anytime in the history of the planet.
This is simply not true.

Next Point: All you do is tell a story in which the Muslim is clearly intelligent .. and Christendom is stupid and barbaric.

This is Pathetic.
I could simply tell a story in which a certain Priest was visiting Arabia and how Muslims were barbaric and stupid.
Then finish the story with the Priest correcting Islams barbaric ways.

The only lesson conveyed is that someone made up an insulting story which is NOT BASED ON REALITY.

The myth of Islam's Medical wonders is based almost exclusively on one REAL STORY.
Europe became over-run with the Bubonic Plague. The Black Death.

Funny story behind that one for you Cab... Seems some Muslims decided to throw rancid diseased meat at Christians to chase them out of town.. The boatload of Europeans were among the first to develop the Disease...

Anyway.. Turns out, some Islamic Doctors knew how to treat it.
Not a big surprise seeing as they were familiar with the disease since it had already appeared there first.

Of course this is a good thing and even if it was Muslims who deliberately murdered millions of Europeans with the Black Death - Credit to the Muslim Doctors who helped end it!

Now to speak to your last paragraph:

I was not asking for examples of wealth and privilage.
The Islamic world has the wealthiest kings and some of the most astonishing riches and luxuries in the entire world!
There are Sultans who can throw away Mercedes cars when the tires go bald... or buy castles and fill them with 20 wifes.... and some of them bought from the West!

Im talking about helpful and meaningful contributions to civilisation:
Medicines to cure diseases like Polio or SmallPox etc etc.
[I cant think of ANY from Islamic world??]

Transportation like Planes, Trains, Cars
[Not for wealth but for practical and helpful purposes]

Where is the Astronomical Research.. Space Programs.. How about things like RADAR, Earthquake Sciences, Dams, Environmental Discoveries?

What about discovering some Elemenets or Molecular structures?

How about simply innovating new ways to build machinery, The Camera.. the Lightbulb.. Hydromechanics?

Now when we see an EarthQuake hit Iran (One of the most fiercly Islamic of all nations) guess what?

That terrible 'Christendom' rushes in to save peoples lives with what?
Camera's
Lighting,
Heavy Duty Machinery,
Innovative Transportation using Trains, Planes and ..
Medicine.

Dont get me wrong Cabdirazz... I do not happen to believe every culture on Earth must supply an equal share of innovation, science and skill, however - YOU have a dilemma.
Why are these thing all coming from 'Christendom' .. ..or even Pagan Asians?

The Islamic world must explain this.
In fact.. OSama Bin Lauden has the only explanation and really.. he is the one brave enough to live by it.

Since all these things - Machinery, Combustion Engines, Technology, Space Travel, Modern Medicine, Communications ARE from 'Christendom' and NOT from the ISlamic world...
'Therefore"...
These things must be BAD.
Living in the Sand and riding Horses must be GOOD.

Therefore ... Destroying Western Civilisation is GOOD.
Its the Will of Allah?

Either that or the Koran could be wrong... and that will be deemd 'impossible' and not an option to consider.

Am I right?

 

Praise be allah


Sufis know where it's at

All books, all writings is god's word, even a pepsi can, silly!



"Sub ek"

All religions are one!

surrender to god is a very very beautiful thing

I do nothing, god does everything!

 

You see this is the problem with religion and that is that it makes people think their religion is greater than some one elses... but its not the truth. Try to see the truth and just understand and stop killing yourselves with all the hate that you have for some religion.

The fact remains the same no matter what path we follow, you never know where you are going to go or how you get there , you do think you know where you need to go and you do think you know how to get there. There is a difference between knowing and thinking that you know and a person who does not understand this is a complete idiot.

 

Ahem, I respect your opinion about an entire religion and how you think it is touched by a character which you think represents evil but lets do a mental excercise here shall we?

Lets say you are an 8 year old boy and you live peacefully happy with your mom and dad and everything... and your mom, dad and you go to shoppping one day... and suddenly you hear a BOOM! everyone in the street is getting attacked, there is a big tank that is coming at you and is shooting at anything that is going to move.

So it shoots and kills your mom and dad. It kills everyone that you see on the street. It destroys the buildings and you hide with fear, you see all of this happening in front of you and finally the tankers leave.

They bomb many neighborhoods like this and they destroy almost everything. Now, some guy comes later on after the tanks leave, hugs you and says they are evil , they will kill us ,and tells you that they are killing you guys and only God can protect you and says you have to stop them from killing you for God. He gives you a gun and some bombs , then
1) would you take it and fight for your life?
2) would you sit there and say , no I will die but I won't fight.

I think a common 8 year old will either be scared or be so scarred that he will shoot them yelling "Allah ho akbar"

It doesn't have to do with his religion my friend, it has to do with his will to survive. Is it him or is it the guy who was shooting from the tank that started all this? ... Man breeds violence, Man breeds hatred, some take religion and say that is what is causing it and some say that stupidity is causing it.
It is neither...

It is MAN who causes violence, not religion and it MAN alone who is responsible but does not accept the responsiblity because it is not in his animal instinctive nature to do so.

He is not stupid, he is very intelligent, but never uses his intelligence for humanism, he only uses it for his group, for his nation, for him , for his wife, for his children, to prove his views...

The guy who comes after the tanks is a man, the guy who shot from the tank is a man and the people who died are men! (excuse my use of man--- I mean woman too when I use man).