Is patriotism a good or bad thing..

i don't watch the news, and i feel being 13 i can't do to much to help but when i older i really wanna travel n help other people for now i just learn

 

The important thing is to value all life and treat others as you want to be treated. Don't buy into power schemes that just want to enrich a few at the expense of the little man. Always question motives and never leap to the "patriotic" call to duty unless you really feel the call. Patriotism is one thing that can be manipulated by marketing and can make you feel one thing, that when the reality sets in you find out you don't accept to the point where taking another's life makes it justified.

And once a life is taken you can't get it back, these aren't just unnamed casualities they are people and other animal lives (yes I am an animal lover) that can never be regained. There are no "do overs", you can't just hit the control z keys.

 

really depends one what you're calling patriotism. to put anything ahead of the kind of world we all have to live in invariably causes, if only by creating a market for, but often almost directly, a great deal of suffering and harm.

putting some group or nation or something you're part of ahead of your own personal comfort and convenience, that is a fine and noble thing, but chauvanism, claiming, even immagining, whatever you are part of to be somehow superior to any equivelant, well that is the source of the destructiveness of fanatacism, and generaly is what fanatacism is, whatever else it may happen to be about.

so generaly i would have to say so called patriotism is more often harmful then good. and why the gender implication? why not matriotism? or better yet, simply recognizing the collective worth of all existence being at least equal to that of your own?

my country, what i think of as MY country, is not whatever i happen to be surrounded by, but the immaginary one inside of my head. the crap i am surrounded by i would never voulintarily die for. and it IS perfectly welcome to die for me.

people killing and dieing for what they don't completely understand, and/or immagine and believe in ways that are totaly misunderstanding are what has things messed up now.

i'm not convinced anyone's world is made any better for anyone by anyone killing or dieing at all.

you might say if no one did how could you prevent genocide, but i have to ask, if no one did how could there BE genocide, or tyranny, of even hierarchal soverignty, and would we not at least be no worse, and possibly quite better, off without them?

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I think the word patriotism stems from the Greek word 'patrida' pronounced pa-tri-tha (the accent being on the syllable with the italics)

πατρίδα. This word means 'country' in Greek, hence -- patriotism: someone who puts his/her country first.

Nouns in Greek have a masculine, feminine and neutral ending. In the case of 'patrida', meaning country, it is in actual fact a feminine noun, therefore no need to create a new one. In the case of matriotism, I am not sure what a matriot would be.

(BTW Some of the Greek characters may not show on some browsers.)

 

I totally agree with you! Actually, as mentioned elsewhere, undying loyalty to your government holding the belief of "my country right or wrong" is NOT patriotism but is properly defined as NATIONALISM! Big difference!

 

I think focusing on political boundaries and divisions of people instead of cultures and wholes of people and societies is ... something...not necessarily dumb, but undesirable. I'm not so great with words. Maybe irresponsible. I think a government that works well with another culture will be far more effective than one that works well with just that culture's governments.

 

ah well i do learn something every day. i had thought patros/pater was and ment the masculine. but if country is already a feminine noun, well in all seriousness neither good nor bad, but i would actualy have prefered the neutral, which i'm curious to know as to what that would be.

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i think what you said there is exactly right and the point in my muttered and bumbling way i was trying to make.

you actualy said much better and more directly then my fumbling attempts to do so.

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You're actually a very bright guy, and because all the years that I've known you, I knew that you'd appreciate the info, which is why I posted it. Greek is a very tricky language, and even though I speak it from an early age, it is still easy to make mistakes. It was lucky that this was one of the words that I'm familiar with.

I actually thought the same thing as you first (that patriot stems from pater, which stems from the ecclesiastical Greek patros,or the modern Greek pateras, which are both masculine nouns, but even though the word for 'country' is connected to 'father', it is actually a feminine noun. I don't know the reason for this, but it's uncanny that they've taken a masculine noun and made it a feminine one, like joining the two together if you think about it, which I think is what you would have liked. Sadly, in the English grammar this kind of wordplay doesn't carry across.

Anyway, I'm digressing, but I just wanted to add this note. Thanks, themnax.

 

Yeah it does - just depends how literate the person is.
Not everyone can know everything about the language but
the etymology of a word is crucial to the language as English is a hybrid
with its origins mainly in Latin, Greek, French, Anglo Saxon,
and other Nordic influences. Its only because the original components of any
word are lost in the modern meaning that words somehow dont have the same
impact they origionally did. However - to know the component structure of a
word is vital when tring to make a completely precise meaning within a
sentence

 

the world should function as one

 

That is a very true and noble statement, Tculi. The problem is that our leaders have added to it and made it:

The world should function as one company.

 

I think misguided/blind patriotism is VERY VERY bad. It allows for corrupt elites to commandeer patriotic sentiments for the purpose of accomplishing their malevolent goals.

 

I've no use for that patriotism crap. Nations are the work of people, just people. Nothing to be worshipped.

 

isolated individuals are easy to control by the elite. Unified nations are not. Look how easy it is for the elites to control America: you have massive societal divisions, wedge issues, polarization etc. Think very carefully about the consequences of your ideas.
family x 10 = community
family x 10,000,000 = nation

 

Bullshit, people that feel they are part of organized groups are more likely to be manipulated than an individual that owns up to their own responsibilities. Me, myself and I....I will not kill another living being....I don't care what you espouse. You want your profit margin, your oil...go fight for it yourself.

Look at the history of the Catholic church and other organized political groups, and I lump the Catholic church with politics because they always have been.

The American public is manipulated by promises of security and lower insurance costs, etc. Who the hell ever said insurance was a mandated part of life.

 

You make VERY VERY big AND flawed assumptions:

1. people that are part of organized groups lack individual discipline/self responsibility
2.people that have self discipline/self responsibility will choose not to be part of a group.

The reality is that only a small minority of people like being isolated unattached individuals. The majority of people seek solace within groups. Two types:
1.People who blindly follow a leader and have no ability to think for themselves. (Undesirable)
2.People who can think for themselves, and choose to be around other like minded people within a group. (Desirable)

Human beings ARE tribal social animals. Humans have a healthy behavioural pre-disposition to discriminate in the process of seeking out the company of those with whom they have the most in common culturally, racially ethnically etc... This is a basic human impulse.

 

Never in my 56 years have I ever felt afraid to voice my opinions, until the last few years. Now I find myself waiting until the waitress leaves the table before I continue a conversation with a friend dealing with the Bush administration. I think this is probably how Germany started out with the advent of the SS. I don't like it and I won't be a part of it. I am not part of the christian right or left. I don't think there are but a handful of honest people anywhere in the beltway, and they have learned to squelch their better instincts.

If I refuse to fight the battles of the elite, and others like me refuse how long can you continue to preserve your status. And if you market to a mass identity and dumb shits, those that only feel viable as part of a bigger system are the only ones you can find to do your dirty work. How long will you last?

 

And basically, I agree with you 100%. We have a situation in effect where ultra-right wingers are blind to obvious truths and at this time want to impose their agenda on all of us. Concurrently, we also have egalitarian liberals who still adamantly refuse to see how their misguided egalitariant beliefs have poisoned relations between various groups in America by imposing their standards on people in the middle: you and I.

 

Personally, I don't believe in patriotism. Just another thing that creates a bias among nations. Booo.