Is Parent-Child Spanking Ever Ok?

Discussion in 'Parenting' started by Nerdanderthal, May 14, 2015.

  1. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    My older sister was a disobedient child, a bad-ass troublemaker for no particular reason that I could see. Nothing worked with her. Maybe my mother should have spent more time with her, and less time at work. I don't know. I really don't know for sure what they should have done to "fix" her.

    I see it as a sign of immaturity, which is okay when you're eight, but not twenty-eight.

    Nerd, are you surprised that nobody is arguing with you today? :D We all seem to be pretty much on the same page on this subject.

    :rofl:

    It's amazing sometimes how animals seem to be able to communicate with each other without anything we can identify as a language!
     
  2. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    Ok I think we're getting somewhere. Doesn't want to do something? What would you try to make your kid do?

    I think you have to treat them like they can reason until they can reason. Let it sink in over the years, but give freedom within the realm of safety to figure out what they should be doing.

    Let's imagine an ideal parenting environment. You work from home, you have a lot of time to devote to your kid and you can give them a lot of freedom. They have access to google to learn anything they want and they can ask you how to get answers. What would you want to make your kid do in that environment? From my perspective a lot of these problems obviously stem from sticking your kid in a rigid school system where they're asked to memorize and regurgitate data on tests. They eat at a perscribed time with no respect paid to when they're actually hungry. They are put on a conveyor belt and rolled through a one size fits all system. Absolutely horrid, no wonder they reject that kind of reality. Who would want to fit in? Holy shit.
     
  3. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    I'm a reasonable dude. You won't find me latching on to any dogma, I go as the data goes.
     
  4. Pieceofmyheart

    Pieceofmyheart Grumpy old bitch HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    727
    Go to bed when they are clearly tired.

    Get medical/dental treatment.

    Take a bath.

    Brush their teeth.

    Eat healthy food.

    Do their chores.
     
  5. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail. Doing a great job as a parent is a monumental task. I don't know to what extent the guy in the following video is exaggerating his claims regarding negotiating with his child and reasoning through every problem but it seems legit.

    Essentially before going to the restaraunt you have a talk. You lay out the ideal scenario and ideal behavior, and if they live up to their end of the bargain they get a small reward. Bribery exists in life. You work for money. You don't necessarily love your work but you are rewarded for it. Don't reward the avoidance of negative behavior, but occasionally reward positive behavior. Use it sparingly if possible, and continually do a cost benefit analysis of the efficacy of the rewarding.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HivMtmkgG6s#t=12m16s

    I don't agree at all with prison schooling or respecting your elders for the sake of being elders so I understand the child's gripes about 4. and 5.

    3. I'm not sure exactly how I'd go about addressing materialism with a kid of mine. I think getting them tons of toys early on sets up the groundwork for valuing consumerism and getting shiny things for the sake of them. I plan on doing a lot of sports with my kid. A lot of free play in nature and stuff. Less toy trucks and cars and guns.
     
  6. Karen_J

    Karen_J Visitor

    Privileges are linked to age. Teenagers always want more freedom than they can handle.
     
  7. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    Nutritionists reccomend "you decide what they eat, they decide how much they eat". You only present healthy options. I personally eat a lot of sweet stuff, but I plan on teaching my kids how to workout to use the carbs as fuel. I imagine they'll see me working out and want to take part, especially a little boy.

    If...then.... is extremely powerful. I want to constantly explain to them and reinforce the consequences. It won't feel real the first time or the second time or the third time, but if you're consistent enough and you prove to be a trustworthy person, if you never lie to them, your word will be gold. If not at age 5 then at age 15. The answer is never "because I said so", it's always explaining the consequences and the reasoning. Trying to be creative and say it in different ways is good. Analogies are good.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Meliai

    Meliai Banned

    Messages:
    25,868
    Likes Received:
    18,279
    every child will respond to various punishments differently depending on temperament.

    I never planned on spanking my child, but I didn't really plan on having a strong willed child either. After a couple of months of non stop tantrums I spanked him.

    and after I spanked him he started hitting himself everytime he grew upset. So I decided that particular form.of punishment doesn't work on him. He's strong willed but sensitive.

    time out never worked either. So I decided to do what always works for me and read up on the subject of tantrums. I learned, and this may be common sense for some but I had never given it much thought, that young children throw tantrums because they don't know how to verbalize their feelings. So I decided to help my son verbalize his feelings - like, "do you feel angry because you can't have _____."

    and it worked. It feels like a miracle. He went from daily tantrums lasting hours at a time to 5 minute little mini meltdowns on rare occasions.

    so I've found what works for us, but I know it probably wont work forever as he moves from immature tantrums to deliberate rebellion. And I would never judge another parent for their disciplinary technique, as long as it isn't abusive.

    I mean no offense but I don't think people with no children have any part of this discussion unless they're professional educators. Because until you have kids you really have no clue
     
    3 people like this.
  9. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,493
    Likes Received:
    14,738
    I spanked each of my boys ONCE. #1 ran in front of a car , which stopped about 2 inches from him. Spanked him and sat him in our trailer. (we were traveling at the time.) #2 went under a mobile home in which we were living in Florida. The landlord had informed us that rattlers were spotted occasionally under the home. He went under, I spanked him and put him in the house. Directly--and I mean DIRECTLY AFTER THAT--a chicken went under the home and stirred up a 5 foot rattler. Took me 4 or 5 shots to kill it.

    My gramma raised me and she had one rule that was ironclad, even when I was 6 years old. I could run around from morning until 6PM when dinner was set on the table. And I BETTER be there at 6PM. I missed it a few times and gramma believed in the spare the rod and spoil the child deal. She would cut a switch off one of the grapevines in the yard, corner me in the bathroom and raise some welts on my ass. Hurt like hell, but i knew the rule--. I never held it against her at all. Still don't. I knew the deal.

    They were little then and did not understand consequences. When kids can understand cause and effect, then reasoning is the way to go.
     
  10. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    I think once you have children and are in the thick of it, you are more clouded by emotion than anyone on the outside. Emotion comes from the ancient, reptilian parts of our brains. When we are emotional, our higher mental processes are shut down. We retreat into our animal brain.

    I think outsiders to parenting might provide valuable insight as far as questioning conventional wisdom. Might I pry into the specifics about what made your kid strong willed? How did he respond when you outlined the reasoning behind the instruction and the consequences of not following it?

    I think anger and frusteration are usually if not always borne of confusion, even for adults. The more one can clarify, the better.
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,493
    Likes Received:
    14,738
    I forgot something. The same way the word- why- will force an adult to explain an opinion or stance on a subject, when my kids were acting unreasonably--I would say--"can you explain to me what you're doing, please?" Well, how does a kid explain acting like a shit? They'd clam up and start thinking what they would/ could say----and the moment was over.
    More often than not, humor works. One time while driving with all 3 of 'em in the back seat, the fighting and noise got louder and louder and it sounded as if blows were coming.

    It was driving me nuts (like a steering wheel on a pirates crotch-aaargh), so as I was driving, I stuck cigarettes in my nostrils and ears and 6 or 7 in my mouth--turned around and said--"aren't you kids EVER gonna' grow Up?? They laughed and the shock of a grown-up(?) acting stupid settled 'em right down and they were happy after my little display.
     
  12. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,385
    :smilielol5:

    What I find amusing is the arrogant and "baiting" nature of your threads/questions.
    It always feels as if you have some type of agenda.

    I'm just waiting for the part where you tie beating your kids to low IQ scores and people of differencing races and then try to convince us all of how superior YOU are based on your "research".

    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,493
    Likes Received:
    14,738
    People without kids can intellectualize about parenting ALL they want. 'till one goes through a pregnancy with a mate and has to actually DO parenting---forget it. It's a whole different mindset than TALKING about it. Yes, Virginia--there are things that you don't know that you don't know.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    Brilliant.
     
  15. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    22,493
    Likes Received:
    14,738
    Thanks--they didn't think so.
     
  16. Pieceofmyheart

    Pieceofmyheart Grumpy old bitch HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    727
    Actually, the reptilian brain controls the body's vital functions such as heart rate, breathing, body temperature and balance. Emotion stems from the Limbic portion of mammal's brains and parts of the brain do not operate independently of one another.


    Outsiders to parenting really do not know squat. It is just one of those things that you are CLUELESS about until you breed and make one that is part of you.


    Something I dealt with for years was working in a Pediatric Dental Office as an RDH. Permissive parents that felt reasoning with their child was the best way to get them to cooperate...we just laughed at them and moved on. It NEVER worked, NEVER! We had open bays so kids could watch other kids and play also. We had many "new age" parents bring their spoiled rotten, over indulged brats in and they were the hardest children to deal with. Not only that....but since these parents do not want to tell their kids what to do, they wanted the kids to be reasonable and think like adults. They cannot reason like adults, they do not have that capability.

    In the end, kids whose parents told them it is not an option, sit there and cooperate. They would get their treatment and feel very proud of themselves afterward.

    The parents who would rather reason with their kids instead of telling them they had to do it? They'd be there for hours trying to convince their kid. They also seemed to be the kids who had a lot of decay and maleformations. I am thinking it is because they allowed their kid any food and drinks they wanted, many of these kids had pacifers way too long and/or were thumbsuckers. So many times we had to medicate these children sometimes in a hospital setting to repair the damage.

    I saw this for years.

    So, Nerdanderthal...once you have kids, and they must cooperate...you go ahead and reason with them. But have a back up plan if they are unreasonable, which children have a tendency to do. There are things kids have to do whether they want to or not. It is just life. When they grow up and expect everyone around them to cater to their wants...they will have a hard time keeping any job. So it simply ridiculous to allow a child to run the show, it won't help them in later life.
     
    2 people like this.
  17. Rots in hell

    Rots in hell Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,133
    Likes Received:
    7,213
    My 2p worth
    when i was growing up in the 50s we were smacked at school and at home if we were naughty !
    that was the way it was then
    A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then , so do I see better behaved kids in the street and schools ?
    As kids my friends and I loved and respected our parents But ! you did wrong you were going to be punished . not have it explained to you why it was a bad idea and mummy wouldn't like it We knew that already
    I have on occasion smacked my kids legs for misbehaving ( again a long time ago now ) and they were not scarred by any of that !
    somehow I believe that some of the old values were worthwhile ;)

    One thing I have noticed though is kids having Tantrums In public seems to have gone up in the last 20 years [​IMG]

    This is not my side of the (anything ) its just an observation from someone who has been around a while and brought up a few Kids [​IMG]
     
  18. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    Maybe some of those kids knew your office was going to fuck them up with amalgam fillings through some sort of sixth sense. Did your office put mercury inside of kids' teeth?

    I wish I could put more stock in your job title and anecdotal exaggerated experience but something isn't ringing true. So many subjective judgements on your part, you're the one defining new age parents. You seem to be rather traditional, like you've bitten the bullet and decided we have to do a lot of stupid things as a society. What is your most non traditional view? In what area does your trust in conventional wisdom break down? I'm very curious, if you answer any part of this, answer that part pleeeease.
     
  19. Pieceofmyheart

    Pieceofmyheart Grumpy old bitch HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    1,295
    Likes Received:
    727
    Of course not, I don't think dentists have used amalgam for years and years. And, no...a child would have no idea about amalgams either....silly you. They did not want to cooperate because it isn't something entirely pleasant. But, I am speaking of cleanings and check ups also, some would not behave for that either.
    What exactly isn't ringing true? You have been questioning what kinds of things do you have to make a child do. I told you several, and why.

    I'm old, I am a parent and I have a lot of life experience. Not sure what you mean by traditional, that's rather subjective depending on your age.

    Trust me...I am far from traditional in my beliefs and actions....and that dear sir will remain none of your business. :)
     
  20. Nerdanderthal

    Nerdanderthal Members

    Messages:
    600
    Likes Received:
    92
    Amalgam is still widely used. Sweden has banned it, the EU has motions to ban it. In most of the world it's still an option. Good to hear your office doesn't use it.

    Let that resonate though. For decades and decades dentists completely failed to do their due diligence and research their materials. They were aware that if you had to remove mercury from someone's MOUTH they had to take extraordinary safety measures, and then the next day they put more mercury in people's MOUTHS. This feels like some population control shit, wtf were these "professionals" thinking?

    I think kids need to brush effeciently obviously, but I'm weird in that until something presents itself as a problem I don't think dentist and doctor visits are necessary. When we try to make kids go through this consumeristic process when it's obvious everything is working, it flies in the face of common sense. Kids get that, but we try to break them and make them go through the motions.

    This is what pops in my mind when I think of dentist offices and to a greater extent, prison shaped schools.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice