Is Marriage Just Crap ?

I'm saying it's both. If people want to say we're like chimps and foxes, and we're not set up for it, it's just chemical and biological.

What I think it can be, and what a creature maybe more evolved spiritually than we are yet might make of it.. Is much more what you say.

I want to make meaning and depth of love. I am just acknowledging where the experience originated because people often use that to discredit love as a spiritual state.

 

Things change. Creatures evolve.
We're all fairly low down on that scale, in this world we know of.

 

i think western societies have something dead in their drinking-well.

 

I wasnt really approaching it from that angle ...not that I think your musings are in response to what I said, I'm just jumping in here

I just think humans can often love more than one person throughout their lifetime, and each love can be meaningful and spiritual and full of depth

 

Of course. My best friend, who incidentally began as my boyfriend, is someone I love and will always love. I'm not saying someone can't have more than one love. I'm comparing the state of marriage which I define as a type of relationship rather than a legal document with more casual relationships that never run longer than say three years.

Which, I repeat, there is nothing wrong with. I just find the typical jokes about marriage ("ball and chain" type jokes) a bit depressing. The perpetuation of the idea that a marriage always becomes that.

 

Also any subject where people start saying what humans ARE and what we're MEANT to be. I'm not saying we're meant to be lifetime partners. Some of us are. Some aren't. But the people who aren't are always saying well you know humans AREN'T monogamous it's not what we're wired for.

Nothing about us is set in stone like that.

 

I hate jokes like that too.
Which is partly the reason why I've formed the views on love and monogamy that I have. I think a lot of bitterness and cynicism of marriage/relationships comes from the fact that so many couples try to force something to work for so long after it just isnt working anymore. People change over a lifetime, often that change involves growing away from someone who was once your entire world, and that uncoupling (stupid word but it fits here) really shouldnt be such a source of bitterness but for so many it is.

 

How many people do you know who are true life long monganists though? Have only dated one person, loved one person, slept with one person? That's what I mean by monogamy and I think its very rare, especially now when there isnt as much societal pressure to marry young and stay married

 

I know a few couples like that.

I'm also well aware as they age and feel time and age pressured, the results can be devastating as partners may start to question and get frustrated with only being with the one person and not experiencing something different. Case in point, almost every thread on HF complaining of a dull sex life or marriage.

I don't even know what spectrum our marriage is on, we are monogamous together as in relationship wise and emotions but open sexually, but kinda together at the same time lol. I dunno.

Basically we don't want or need anyone else in our relationship, but we're up for a good time. I will call us... Funamory.

 

I've known several couples that have remained close friends after divorcing. A girl I work with and her new boyfriend hang out with her ex-husband for example. It's not that rare.

 

Yeah I see this a lot too. I believe in a 5-10 change. Something about me changes every 5-10 years.

When I was 18 I wasn't into what I was into when I was 25 and at 32 if I was to tell 18yo Irmi what she'll be into I'd roshambo myself in the groin.

Point is, a lot can change. Music for instance, style, hobbies or interests but also your links and fetishes as you age and start to become aware of all the sexuality out there.

Problem is most folks can't talk to each other. The married man finds it hard to tell his wife his changing desires, becomes resentful.

I tell my wife everything, if something is changing or I'm curious about something she has to know and I don't expect a eww no way, I expect like always "that's cool, live your life" which is how we are. My wife and I don't like the same things all the time together whether music or TV or even certain sexual kinks but we respect one another enough to explore our desires without repurcussion.

Also, we wrote our own marriage ceremony and we didn't do vowels, instead we declared oaths to one another and specifically those oaths are written in a way where we can be funamory.

That oath literally says we will cherish and respect one another in our own way. "our own way" being key.

 

thanks. i agree, it's totally them.

i was hoping this was really a word, but alas, google denies it. on the plus side, i learned that montanists were an early christian sect that differed from the traditional church in that they believed in a set of new prophecies that were told by people not just speaking for, but actually possessed by god. they were labeled as heretics and apparently didn't last long.

 

I've known a couple.

But also I never meant so much emphasis on sexual monogamy (although it's my preference).
Irminsul's relationship, all I hear of it, is gorgeous.. I admire it. It falls in the category of long term love, which is what I originally said. Not sexually monogamous long term love. That part is up to the couple. It's the long term love partnership, however it is held together, that I like.

As for growing apart etc.. The only relationship I've experienced where I feel I could be with them "forever" is my current one, and "on paper" we are so different. Different politics, tastes, views. From different times. The thing that I will refer to as "true love" isn't necessarily connected to that stuff. It's just a sense of.. Togetherness which feels deeper. Past relationships I've had would never have survived last summer. I would not have looked past a whole bunch of stuff that happened. With him, it's like.. Well I've got to. Because it's him. Like how whatever your kid does, you love it. Even when they're awful. And I still get butterflies about him. I still get that "first date" feeling. I think perhaps it's just rare.. And if I'd been a bit different, or wanted kids, I might have married one of my previous boyfriends.. Then ended up four years, five years in.. Being the stereotype of a long term marriage..

.. Convincing myself nothing else was possible because I am a human and just wired that way ; )

 

I don't believe it's crap as long as both parties are committed to each other and committed to the vows they swear to uphold.

 

Ah, now, I DON'T believe in "vows".
Life is about freedom.
If you are not free to do as you wish, because you are bound by a vow, you're not free.
And you cannot make a promise for the future.
This is why I consider marriage just a state of being.
If I'd ever had a wedding I'd make "statements" not vows.

 

Oh???

 

Sometimes I feel like the generic vowels are blatantly lied too in one another's faces with the response of "I do" I mean even in poly relationships you're lying to one another if you're saying "I do" to the "you and only you" part.

Through sickness and despair? Hell, everyone knows when the hubby got man flu you don't want to be near him.

We didn't say "I do" with our oaths, we said "we will" together at the same time. And each oath declared, another bind was made in out handfasting

Actually I think that was in the ceremony

"we will"
*another eternal bind is made*

We only had about 6 oaths we made.

 

I'm specifically speaking of a Christian marriage.

I would stick with someone trough sickness and in health. The whole point of a going through a Christian marriage is to uphold certain vows and to become totally committed to that relationship. (not Christian btw)

That's very cool and all but whether you say "I do" or "we do" You're both still making a statement of doing something for the other person and being committed.

 

Promises in general.
I mean, sure I can promise you I'll do xyz next week but if I get to next week and don't want to, why should any of my life be lived in obligation? I believe in absolute freedom. Doing something we don't want to do, but think is right, so we do it.. That's different. Doing anything because you feel bound by an obligation is not being free.

If my husband is staying with me because he made a vow and feels he has to fulfill that vow isn't pleasing to me anyway. If he stays with me because he is free not to, but wants to, that's meaningful. We can't make promises and vows about the future because we're not the people we'll be in the future yet.

 

I think a lot of people fall in love with the idea of marriage, and not really the person they're marrying. They also look for that person to be a 'rescuer' or 'healer' of everything that has happened before in their lives, leading up to that point. No one can ''make'' you happy, or ''fix'' you. Or make you complete. People have unreasonable expectations of a partner, and therefore, their marriages fail. I've been married for a few years now, and I'm learning a lot...not only about what it means to be a ''good wife,'' but about myself. You learn a lot about yourself in a long term relationship.