Is "life" bound to happen?

No reasonable person can take position in absence of knowledge.

 

True- but there are some who are not so ignorant on the subject

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17987-how-life-evolved-10-steps-to-the-first-cells.html

 

Are you here to take up space or to simply make that statement?

 

:cheers2:

Very interesting article. This makes me wonder if there is life on Jupiter's moon Europa. It most likely has underwater heat vents.

 

The amino acids produced are exactly that amino acids, not life.

In 1953 Stanley Miller passed an electric spark through an “atmosphere” of hydrogen, methane, ammonia and water vapor. This produced some of the many amino acids that exist and that are the building blocks of proteins. However, he got just 4 of the 20 amino acids needed for life to exist. More than 50 years later, scientists were still unable experimentally to produce all the 20 necessary amino acids under conditions that could be considered plausible.

That's just amino acids and not the rest of the steps to life; proteins, nucleotides and DNA.

Here is a little something else for you to think about; Proteins depend on DNA for their formation. But DNA cannot form without pre-existing protein. This leaves the paradox: Which came first, the protein or the DNA? The origin of the genetic code poses a massive chicken-and-egg problem that remains, at present, completely scrambled.

 

If life did evolve in alkaline hydrothermal vents, it might have happened something like this:

Unlike today's seas, the early ocean was acidic and rich in dissolved iron. (I'd be interested to know how they know this)

4) The electrochemical gradient between the alkaline vent fluid and the acidic seawater leads to the spontaneous formation of acetyl phosphate and pyrophospate, which act just like adenosine triphosphate or ATP, the chemical that powers living cells.

These molecules drove the formation of amino acids – the building blocks of proteins – and nucleotides, the building blocks for RNA and DNA.

5) Thermal currents and diffusion within the vent pores concentrated larger molecules like nucleotides, driving the formation of RNA and DNA – and providing an ideal setting for their evolution into the world of DNA and proteins. Evolution got under way, with sets of molecules capable of producing more of themselves starting to dominate. (To me it's interesting that between 4 & 5 the article stops giving specifics and just says if you've got amino acids then presto you get RNA, DNA. That just seems like a prety big leap of faith.)

 

Is that not YOUR conjecture? That life is set in motion, held together or guided by some supernatural force?

You claim it is impossible for nature to assemble the building blocks of life. I explained that a trillion trillion billion is a very small number in the grand scale of the universe and probability exists. Since you would have to be ignorant, mad or just full of jumbullshit to deny natural probability then the real question becomes this: When NATURE assembles the building blocks of life then does it run, does the code execute on its own, does it live without being willed to by a supernatural consciousness?

Well there certainly is no empirical evidence that any supernatural forces exist and the more we learn and explain then the less likely it becomes that Gods or supernatural forces exist. We know that life is made up from natural elements and molecules. We know that doctors and scientists in laboratories can disassemble and reassemble these building blocks to make genetically modified life. So if mere mortals can assemble life and witness it replicate, function and live then doesn't that at least suggest that it is running without the will of a supernatural conscious force?

 

The word is WAS not IS. Life was created by God.

No that is not my claim, My claim is that it is a possibility that you and your fellow evolutionists fail to take into consideration when you claim a long period of time and enough chemicals makes life inevitable.

Thanks for the "probably exists", that's all I've been saying in this whole thread, that it is just a probability and not a certainty as is generally claimed.

See now you just jump back to, it had to happen.

If this universe is a universe where life just had to happen then fine, given enough time it had to happen but if it is not then it could never happen, no matter how long it's given and would need an outside force to make it happen.

Just because you deny the evidence doesn't mean that there is none and personally, the more we learn and explain, the more likely it is that God exists.

Yes we do but that's a long way from them forming into life.

The jury is still out on whether to call it making life but modified yes.

One, they are reassembling life that is already there. Get back to me when they start from scratch.
Two, these are "intelligent" beings under laboratory conditions taking already formed life and modifying it. Doesn't that tell you something about the creation of life.
Three, I said that life was started by God, that doesn't mean that it can't run for a long time with out his direct intervention.

 

Also these mere mortals as you call them have almost no idea what they are doing and one can only hope that while meddling with things they don't understand, they don't unleash on mankind a plague that will make us extinct. After all they don't seem to have done a very good job taking care of the earth.

 

Where is your evidence as to the qualifications of anyone? Who in particular is in any way more responsible for the condition of this planet than you? That you believe that the truth requires defense is a sure sign you do not know what it is.

 

LMFAO, Yeah because when I think world leaders, corrupt political parties and earth raping influencial organizations I think scientists in white lab coats. Oh that's the first thing that pops into my head for sure, those atheist heathens! Thank God for trigger happy Christian republicans maintaining some balance or what kind of hell would this world be by now, Go Texas!

Oh the detachments from reality are reaching astronomical heights now!

 

Yep.

4 of the 20 for life as we know it today not necessarily the beginnings of life back then. Life was probably much simpler using RNA or perhaps evening simpler forms of information.

True.

Perhaps less complex strands that form a bridge between inorganic and organic could be the answer.

A collective autocatalytic set of molecules is one possibility where molecules could have evolved into more complex systems and eventually into RNA,DNA and protein.

Everything is an evolving collective system when you think about it.

 

You do go on, don't you.

 

Monkey Boy,
Just for information sake, this is a direct quote from the article you posted a link to, not something I came up with.

Originally Posted by OlderWaterBrother In 1953 Stanley Miller passed an electric spark through an “atmosphere” of hydrogen, methane, ammonia and water vapor. This produced some of the many amino acids that exist and that are the building blocks of proteins. However, he got just 4 of the 20 amino acids needed for life to exist. More than 50 years later, scientists were still unable experimentally to produce all the 20 necessary amino acids under conditions that could be considered plausible.

 

Hey OWB

the darwinists must be in debt and highly thankful to you for opening this thread. Before you started it they were at total loss, they made an assertion they couldn't back up and lately were calling me all kind of names out of desperation.

But here you came and now they must be relieved with comfort as you brought it back to their comfortable zone of "Darwinism is Rational & Scientific vs Religious , Bible is the word of God" kind of argument.

Congratulations, OWB, you do great favor to darwinists, you made them appear much more reasonable than they actually are.

They must be greatly indebted to you.


:cheers2:

 

...lol...?

 

I couldn't find this quote on my link, but I found something else you posted.

I looked up more on the experiment. The experiment produced 22 amino acids 13 of which are found in life. The test isn't perfect, but it does give more explanation on how life may have started.

 

def zepplin,
Did i nail it or what?

 

I tried to read the thread... but it was a rerun.

Olderwaterbrother,
ignoring the fgact that you've already discredited yourself as a believer, answer ONE SIMPLE QUESTION:

Does addition of energy to a system increase complexity?

Of course you won't answer-- becuase you lack faith in your biblical convictions.

if you cannot understand my previous post (as indicated) then you must admit your incompetence to participate in this disscussion-- even jumbulli comprhends the basics-- as much as is pisses him off.

 

Just ignore him dz.