Is "life" bound to happen?

Documentation please. How big is the universe? What is the number?

We all anxiously await the end of jumbulism.

 

Estimates of the matter content of the observable universe indicate that it contains on the order of 10 X in magnitude of 80 atoms

Jumbulism never started ergo it can't end.

 

An estimate is not the same thing as a finite number. Your claim is of the existence of a known finite number. What is that number?

We are still waiting.

 

In order to know that life, in the absence of life, would definitely occur...you'd first have to know what consciousness is, exactly. And you can't know. So no, there's no way of knowing that it would definitely occur just given so many lifeless molecules.

 

We come back to the question, what if all matter is conscious? We can certainly say that the universe is made of information.

 

Get a piece of paper, write ten on it and then add 80 zeroes. There you will have it.

 

I'm not interested in doing your home work for you. Your calculation starts with estimated parameters and ends in an estimated total not a finite number.
Clock is ticking, . . . . .

 

Actually, I was wrong , you would need to write 1 and add 80 zeroes or 10 + 79 zeroes.

Yes it's an estimated number. It's part of the existing theory about size and number of atoms in observed universe.
That theory is scientifically valid, it has premises and observed events based on which the esitame is made. No hush-hush, no such a thing as "but you must believe it because those physicists too smart to fail" , or "this is so because there is a mountain of evidence to prove it so" mantra. No. They have their work clear cut.

In any event, let's focus on subject of this thread which is not Big Bang theory or method of estimation of atoms in Universe (if you are interested in latter, go open a thread and those who interested might post).

The simple matter of fact is all you evolutionists are bunch of Munchausens who made a Positive Assertion and now try to come up with all possible excuses not to back it up.

I find it to be highly entertaining and at times ironic :cheers2:

 

Personally, I do understand the numbers involved.

But what I'm trying to discuss is the concept of 0 possibility and if that is the case then it did not happen, is not happening and will not happen.

Evolutionist keep making the claim, it's bound to happen or it's inevitable etc but what if if can't happen?

That is what this whole thread is about, the fact that there is the possibility that this a universe that can support life but where there is 0 possibility that it could start life.

I'm not saying that it is a fact, because I don't know but then scientists don't know either. So if they don't know how or under what circumstances life could have started on it's own then why do they keep stating it as a fact.

So it all goes back to the old; we know life exists, so it must have started by it's self, so evolution is true and thus life exists.

Sorry but "so it must have started by it's self" is an assumption and not a fact.

 

Your quote is sufficient, Nothing is required of me.

 

Existence is not a start-up enterprise. Why the effort to propose differing orders of reality, that is where assumptions and beliefs begin to take over as we try to decide which reality is real. It is nonsense used to propagate belief.

 

If you are holding a handful beans and ask someone how many beans am I holding and he says about one hundred, just because he gives you an estimate instead of a exact number does not mean or even imply that you are holding an infinite number of beans, it just means he has not had the opportunity to count the beans for an exact number yet. Likewise, except for maybe yourself, very few consider the universe to be infinite and thus the number of atoms in the universe is finite but have not been counted for an exact number yet, so he gave you an estimate.

 

we are not talking existence, we are talking about life but except for God, even existence is a start-up enterprise.

 

That is my question. Why are you bringing up exceptions to life? No one can demonstrate that life is absent. Reality is non local, nor is it remote. Why the magical twist to miraculous nature? What pill are we asked to swallow here, that we are separated from reality? I find that to be insane.

 

This belief is called panpsychism. If all matter is alive, by definition the universe is the same thing as God. There's no way of distinguishing mind from matter in the first place. I don't know why people assume you can. I'm taking the opposite approach and assuming it's all mind.

 

The concept of zero natural possibility is pure fantasy. You are defaulting to your religious programming that relies on an unfounded fantasy that living cells are held together by a supernatural conscious glue from beyond the natural universe. Ironically YOUR concept IS the one with ZERO evidence and ZERO probability!

Cell replication is very automatic and predictable. Mutations occur from real insufficiencies and contaminations, not supernatural vibes and karma.

 

So you say but but where is your proof?

I didn't think so.

You do like to just make it up as you go along don't you?

Living cells are held together by a supernatural conscious glue from beyond the natural universe, that's great!

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Why yes, yes it is.

Interestingly though we are not talking about cell replication. We are talking about the steps from inorganic material to that first cell, not what comes after the cell has already been formed.

I'll tell you what really sounds like fantasy, the "scientific" explaination of the steps from inorganic material to that first cell; "you put all the chemicals into a "big black hat" stir them around for a few billion years, all the while shocking the "hat" with lightening and presto out comes that "simple" one celled life form that all other life comes from". Yeah right. Surely you guys can come up with some thing better than that? At least I believe someone who knew what he was doing was holding the hat and doing the stirring.

Supernatural vibes and karma? No one but you is saying they do, I know I've never said that, where do you come up with this stuff?

 

That "electrecute few chemicals in bottle = organic life" experiment has been debunked long time ago.
This shows you where these guys are in terms of knowledge of subject.

It's like someone appealing to the laws of classic physics to explain quantum mechanics. You know they've got no clue.

 

What is your position on the question is life bound to happen?

 

If you look at the DNA that is most common in all life forms the amino acids used are the ones most readily produced in the Miller experiment. So even if less amino acids were produced they would still be the ones found in life today.

Amino acids also exist in other parts of the solar system and are produced by ultraviolet light. The muchison meteorite that landed in 1969 contained 90 amino acids 19 of which are used in life forms.

Miller also performed experiments to simulate conditions in volcanic eruptions and they produced 22 different amino acids.

Also, I may not be the sharpest claw in the paw, but wouldn't lightning storms produce more energy than a small experiment?