Is it time to talk about guns?

Wrat1

Again I'm unsure what your argument is? Maybe if you actually answered the questions given to you and addressed the criticisms levelled at your views you might make some sense.

 

OK - Thing is that there is this rather desperate argument put forward by some pro gun lobby people

It goes like this - if there were gun control measures and they worked in lessening legally held guns from falling into the hands of criminals and the irresponsible - then the criminals and the irresponsible would still be able to get guns - in the same numbers - from other sources - from homemade guns and from smuggled in guns.

The thing is that as pointed out many times - that is not a big problem in countries that have already got gun control measures in place and where it is already illegal to make homemade guns or smuggle them into the country.

It's the same old - ‘it will never work’ argument that claims nothing can be done so nothing should be done.

 

Illegal machine gun conversion devices smuggled into US - CNN
Federal authorities suspect that thousands of machine gun conversion devices have been illegally imported into the United States from China, in some cases ending up in the hands of convicted felons, CNN has learned.

 

no... they're just not saying what should be done, and crossing their fingers and toes in hopes that it'll be "nothing".

 

I think that the background check laws are enforced. Licensing laws...

But when anyone wants to expand on those it's "What about our Second Amendment right?!" and the tantrum begins...

 

To say Biden wants to “disarm the US is simply a meaningless rant. Many of us are old enough to remember the days when we weren’t held hostage by the flood of purposeful lethal weaponry. By any measure the United States is less safe than it was before the massive influx of guns. I grew up where hunting was a tradition and the only gun related murder I remember hearing of was the President of the local gun club and his wife in a murder suicide. I worked weekends at that club. It’s beyond insane for anyone to oppose reasonable limits on guns. It’s a National virus not shared by our neighbors to the North.

 

Idiot

Gov. Reynolds signs Iowa handgun bill: No-permit concealed carry, purchase

 

Remember when Obama took people's guns away?
Neither do I.

 

Jen

LOL so those in the US who wish for gun control are not people, are not constituents are not voters?

That makes no sense.

A 2019 poll report by Politico found that 70% of Americans support an assault weapons ban, including 86% of Democrats and 54% of Republicans. The same year, a National Public Radio (NPR), PBS Newshour, and Maris College poll found that 83% of Americans believe Congress should pass legislation that requires background checks for gun purchases at gun shows or other private sales.

Pew Research found that Americans on both sides of the political divide overwhelmingly support universal background checks. Ninety-three percent of Democrats and 82% of Republicans said they favored, "making private gun sales and sales at gun shows subject to background checks."

Again this is not about a ban on gun ownership the proposed measures are about trying to lessen the possibility of guns falling into the hands of the irresponsible and criminal - you don’t seem to have put up any rational argument against them.

The problem is that if the already existing system is not working then it would seem obvious that a different approach is needed - “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”

The gun control advocates want a new approach you just seem to want to carry on with something that hasn’t and isn’t working.

 

I think we do need to keep talking about this issue if nothing else to keep highlighting the fact that the pro gun lobby do not seem to have any sensible arguments for their stance.

It is like having some scales and on the gun control side is heeped rational and reasonable argument, evidence, comparison, research and statistics and on the pro gun side there is a petulant teenager stamping its foot and screaming no.

At this point there is no equivalence of argument.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...0ef6d4-97d2-11eb-962b-78c1d8228819_story.html

 

Leave Jen alone she is Hot,
You sound like an Anti,
There are responsible gun owners like there are responsible pet owners.
There are irresponsible parents and irresponsible individuals.
You cannot rule against that specifically but laws cover many aspects of what is right, that does not prevent every idiot from messing up.
People who for whatever reason do massacre s etc are wired that way and will find a means to offend.
The Majority here may not fit in with everything the the mainstream society seems normal or common practice.
We cannot legislate against humans breeding but if we could prevent the wackos, phsychosvand others breeding it would help.
Then they would put restriction on other class of people breeding if they had the power.
Idiots breed, it come natural, it's instinct and not something that is easily controlled.

 

sure we can..

 

Like Communist China?

 

Curious

And there are irresponsible and even criminal pet owners - I mean according to the US humane society 71 percent of domestic violence victims reported that their abuser also targeted pets.

Yes there are irresponsible parents and although there are laws and regulations and social services in place to mitigate the harm and help people, I’m in favour of doing more.

That is the point if there is a problem the best thing to do is deal with it - there are problems in the US related to guns and gun control advocates want to do something about it - the problem is that many pro gun advocates don’t.

Gun control supporters have put forward many ideas on how to lessen the possibility of guns falling into the hands of the criminal and irresponsible - what are your rationally based arguments against that?

So the rational thing to do is to or lessen the risk and mitigate against the possibility of harm. This can be done by having social services and healthcare in place to help such people and gun control measures to limit such peoples access to the deadliest of weapons.

Did you see the video in post 150?

This sounds like you support eugenics, are you honestly saying that rather than having prudent gun control measures you would prefer to begin sterilising anyone suspected of having a mental illness? How would you know who to target? Thing is most people have had some level of mental problems in their life do you sterilise them all on the principle of 'better to be safe'?

Sorry that to me is not only irrational but deeply repugnant - why not try and help people

And it wouldn’t actually deal with the problem which is ease of access to guns

 

I never suggested sterilising anybody.

The point was people can breed freely without terms and condition s or a permit.

If the wackos 'psychos and shit people did not reproduce it might help. If it's not hereditary they might still impact on the raising or failure to raise the offspring.

Shit people breed shit people, we don't need more shit people.

Australia does a lot for mental illness. Particularly for the general population who are in the community the average type person who may have some problems short term or ongoing.

There is half a chance some of their issues come from their upbringing or something they have been subjected to by wackos

 

Curious

So if you are not suggesting sterilisation what are you suggesting?

And again i’d point out that the right wingers that have traditionally support ease of access to guns in the US have been those that seem the least interested in addressing mental health issues. For example in opposing funding for universal healthcare and social services.

 

Haven't kept any records.Could just be when the wackos get on more of a roll the anti gunners get louder. Personnely I feel gun control is ;hitting your target', and think people living with any hope or dream can properly pick the proper target.

 

I am anti-gun.

The atrocities that we experience at the hands of those who would do us harm with guns is severe and I can't live with it.

Something has come to my attention about the country where my girlfriend lives - there are bride-kidnappings. There can be no clearer picture in my mind of why personal protection is valid. I want whoever would subject her to anything like that to be certain there is a dire consequence. I just don't think that a gun will solve the problem.

But I want her protection - guaranteed. I just don't think a gun will do anything but cause problems.

 

Mart

So your statement was a lie.

How do you think lying helps your arguement?