Is it time to talk about guns?

Well, there are two ways to deal with that – wipe out the whole of the human race – or try to put mechanisms in place to try and mitigate and lessen the damage.

In relation to limiting the number of gun related deaths in the US then you can either wipe out every American (men, women and children, the innocent and guilty, the aggressive and the pacifists) or try and bring in gun control measures

I mean for fuck sake

Sorry but to me to just throwing up your arms and crying ‘humans are killers’ is a cop out – oh humans are killers so nothing can be done or should be done because you know humans are killers so there is no point – let them die let the killing continue because humans are killers.

Really if would be just for the best if the people that think these things would just kill themselves and let those that would like to build a better future get on with it, because if you are not willing to help then you are just in the way.

Sorry it gets to me sometimes

 

Scratcho

Yes I always want to hold on to the hope

Oh i'm just been grouchy

 

Don’t know if that’s directed at me, but I was stating a fact.

 

Flag

And my point was that you can either – try and wipe out the whole of the human race – do nothing - or try to put mechanisms in place to try and mitigate and lessen the damage.

Which would you prefer

Given the context that this is about bringing in gun control measures

 

So,,, prohibition isn't effective then?
People still want their fix?
Go out of their ways to find or develop alternative compounds to get their rocks off?

Hmmmm

 

14 Animals That Kill For No Reason (ranker.com)
Over centuries of study, scientists have found animals use tools like humans, animals use disguises like humans, and now we know that they sometimes kill for fun like humans, too. By fun, we mean they don't do it over territorial disputes, in self-defense, to get food, or to move up in the pack hierarchy. These animals kill for apparently no reason whatsoever. And here's a little spoiler: some of them might be living in your house right now.

 

Jen

When I say your posts are confusing it is often because you don’t take the effort to explain and when asked refuse to answer questions that might clarify things. All we seem to get (as you do here) is you telling us you can’t be bothered to reply.

To take just one example

You said - You just want to make us even more 'overwhelmed' when you take us over

But who are the ‘us’ in that and who is supposedly taking over?

Do you see how your statement rather than been plain and concise is in fact opaque

So maybe you could start by answering those two simple questions?

 

But it's not about prohibition (please read the gun control proposals posted in this thread)

It is about putting in place sensible regulation to try and lessen the likelihood of guns falling into the hands of the criminal and irresponsible.

And nobody has yet come up with any rational or reasonable argument why that would not be a good idea.

 

I think it is time to talk about mental health.

Chicago has some of the most strict regulations, not helping them much.

How about the mental health of people that harm others?

 

Most people who possess firearms and who use them for non-legal purposes don't get them from a legal source.

Tackling the major undelying drivers of gun and gang related crime (such as inequality and other related issues) would, I'm no doubt go a long way towards reducing firearms offences.

Non-legal gun related violence tends to happen most in areas where guns are not legally owned.

 

Jen

LOL sorry i’m not a mind reader - I can only go on what people write - so when something is written that seems to me to be saying something or imply something I say ‘you seem to be saying…..’

This allows the person to correct me if that is not what they were trying to say, if they don’t come back with a correction and explanation of why that wasn’t the case then the accusation stands.

That is how debate works - the only people that wouldn’t understand that are those who have never actually debated before.

Thing is that I often find that the thing I thought they were implying when examined was exactly what they were implying

 

Jen

Any rational and reasonable society regulates to mitigate risk.

Think of all the regulations associated with driving - you have to have training and pass a test before been given a licence and then you need insurance and keep the car road worthy....

You then have to follow all the rules of the road including such things as not driving recklessly or under the influence.

Driving is heavily regulated

And many people that wish for gun control think gun ownership should be just as regulated to mitigate against risk

But a car is not a gun - and there should be regulations tailored to each.

For example cars were not designed to be weapons they are modes of transport and are therefore more useful and more used than a gun and for that reason far more people drive than own a gun.

We have laws in place to deter people from drinking and driving - these can involve heavy fines and terms of imprisonment and bans from being able to drive.

The police can stop anyone they suspect of drink driving and the driver has to comply with their request to be tested.

Yes deaths due to drink driving do occur but society has tried to mitigate against the possibility and is always looking to lessen the risk further there is even talk of fitted all cars with anti-drink driving technology.

But many pro-gun people are opposed to nearly any prident gun control regulations aimed a reducing the risked associated with gun owner.

 

Santa

Already covered post 60

Many other countries have intolerance and mental health care problems but don’t have the gun problem’s the US has however they don’t have the ease of access to guns that the US has.

So honestly the ease of access to guns does seem to be the real issue

I’d also point out that the right wingers that traditional support that ease of access have been those that seem the least interested in addressing intolerance and mental health issues. For example in opposing universal healthcare and in supporting voter suppression.

 

Jingles

Already covered - in this thread alone 43, 45, 129

According to the FBI virtually all the guns in criminal hands were bought legally then passed on to criminals or stolen by them.

Already covered this thread 157

I’ve said many times that to tackle the gun issue it needs a holistic approach it is not just about gun control laws but things like healthcare reform, drug policy reform and welfare reform.

Can you back this up and not sure what your point is?

I mean given that the US does not have state border checks guns can easily travel around the US that is why gun control supporters what Federal laws rather than local ones.

 

this would seem to disagree with your above statement
Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016 (bjs.gov)

An estimated 287,400 prisoners had possessed a firearm during their offense. Among these, more than half (56%) had either stolen it (6%), found it at the scene of the crime (7%), or obtained it off the street or from the underground market (43%). Most of the remainder (25%) had obtained it from a family member or friend, or as a gift.

 

wrat1

Why?

Where do you think the guns obtained from the street and underground markets came from?

 

Khyber Pass copy - Wikipedia

there is a good documentary from vice about the counterfeit gun makers
its on hbo I think, watched it quite a while back it was eye opening

 

Wrat1

Again I'm unsure what your argument is? Maybe if you actually answered the questions given to you and addressed the criticisms levelled at your views you might make some sense.

 

10,800 Assault Weapons Parts Seized by CBP in Louisville | U.S. Customs and Border Protection
May 22. Officers inspected the item, which was arriving from Shenzhen, China, destined for a residence in Melbourne, Florida.