Is it time to talk about guns?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. FritzDaKatx2

    FritzDaKatx2 Vinegar Taster

    That's another good option, probably scare off those "less sincere in their intent" even if they did have a gun.

    Sure makes a good plan B in any case.

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    wrat1 likes this.
  2. FritzDaKatx2

    FritzDaKatx2 Vinegar Taster

    I gotta add though, the scenario could end up with the both of us having a beer down the street provided some sort of conversation evolved, but damn they call it Dead silent for a reason :D
     
  3. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Continued from 929.

    The debate about the availability of guns goes on and on here in the US of A. The killings from the use of guns--likewise. It appears that as long as machines exist that can hurl death dealing pieces of material that are extremely hard on the human body and they continue to be manufactured--there will be deaths from them. People just seem to disagree on many issues and disagreements often lead to using the aforementioned machines to solve their differences. In addition, some citizens allow the desire to have what they want, when they want , such as the possessions of others, to over ride any compunction of learned and commonly accepted behavior in society. And of course there are those psychopaths that are born devoid of conscience altogether. There is no right or wrong with those individuals. Just what suits them is what is important. If you're unlucky--you might become entangled with one of these types.

    There was a time in my life--in the jungle ---on the big island of Hawaii--my relationship to the experience of my life, tempered with some serious illegal substances--one could say existentially speaking, I suppose--when all was right with the world. It was a very peaceful existence for me alone and among others of like mind and experience. I felt at one with all. At that point in life, I had zero thoughts of ever owning a gun. It was ridiculous to think that it would be important to have such a machine. And I can remember feeling and espousing the belief that in the event an other human were to confront me with a death dealing machine or even use such a device on me --it was surely meant to be that way and I was fine with it. I had become a very passive dude.

    ( a condensed finish) I reluctantly left the jungle and came back to the mainland with my lady friend of that time frame and settled on the Oregon coast. ( health reason--another story). Life rolled on, I hooked up with a different lady friend and Lo and behold--a child!! A most auspicious and wonderful event, for sure. We went to Florida to do a sailboat--(another story) ended up back in Oregon--3 kids total! Happy days.:) Well now--not so suddenly--but inexorably--I began to feel that maybe "things ' that I had felt over my years as a mental traveler were not quite as important as I had thought. I began to read the newspaper again. I began to listen to the news. ( I did not have tv--for the kids sake.) The Manson saga--the friends of mine that were killed for no reason --the hitchhikers constantly killed--Ted Bundy, robberies, houses broken into, etc, etc. Yes--"things"were not exactly to my liking. What about my kids? I'm not even sure that I even knew what REAL love was until those precious little being showed up. What about my mate? Would I feel so disconnected from fear of danger because of my previous existentialism?

    To sum up--not a chance. The decision to preclude some dangerous human from playing god with me and the ones I was beholden to protect was not in the cards. So now, I'm a gun owner. I've never had to decide to use a gun against anyone and I never had to go to war, but I'm stating here and now--I will if it comes to it. And I will with no regret. I believe that I could and would protect ANY law abiding citizen. And I think I would be right in doing so.

    I could have confined the two posts to the last sentence in the previous paragraph I suppose. It wasn't easy deciding to own guns from where i was mentally, so that's why I put all this down. I'll bet there are some others that have have gone through the mental hoops you have to jump through in order to buy guns. I don't hunt, but I do shoot targets and enjoy the machines that way. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  4. FritzDaKatx2

    FritzDaKatx2 Vinegar Taster

    I'm glad you mentioned Bundy @scratcho , if we step back and look at per capital rates we've come a long way from the days before the AR platform became such a hot item following the Columbine massacre, but who wants to look at averages and "social norms" when one's argument is better served by big scary numbers :eek:

    We are quite in fact moving further away from things resembling the wild west, becoming a more polite society (not yet perfect by any means but steadily improving as time goes on
    )

    We have but the Media to thank for driving any thoughts to the contrary.

    What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.
     
    scratcho likes this.
  5. Toecutter

    Toecutter Moderator

    American military does not decide who or when they fight, it is politicians who decide.

    Historians make Heroes.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    So how many times are guns actually used to stop a home invasion?
    But a report by criminologists Gary Kleck claims 200,000 people reported shooting an assailant in 1995.
    Odds of dying from a gun assault (assault isn't defined but I assume that includes murder suicide, family and relatives, and mass shootings) 1 in 289 in the U.S. in 2019.
    Odds of dying from a car crash, 1 in 107
    Fall,1 in 106
    Opioid overdose 1 in 92
    Suicide 1 in 88 ~ Odds of Dying
     
  7. Toecutter

    Toecutter Moderator

    https://www.just-tactical.com/post/how-often-a-gun-is-used-in-self-defense

    Using guns in self-defense can help save lives, but what is the percentage for that? what is the actual number of defensive gun uses?
    According to many researchers, including Pew Research Center, 50 percent of gun owners confirm that they own a gun mainly for protection. At the same time, was a debate over how often people use guns in self-defense. Numbers range from the millions to hundreds of thousands, depending on the country, population, criteria, time-period studied, and other factors.

    Low-end estimates are in the range of 500,000 and 3 million times each year. So, as you see, there are more than a few and is good reason to believe that most defensive gun uses are never reported to law enforcement, much less picked up by local or national media outlets.

    One of the most commonly cited estimates of defensive gun uses, published in 1995 by criminologists Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, concluded there are between 2.2 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses annually.
     
  8. erofant

    erofant Members

    Regardless of political affiliation ............ I have to say - sadly - that we ALL better plan to protect our families & properties. Even with fully staffed police forces, they can't be everywhere. In some cases - they DON'T WANT to be in certain places either.
     
    Toecutter, wrat1 and scratcho like this.
  9. erofant

    erofant Members

    I can't answer that question. I'm only interested in stopping ANY home invasion at OUR PLACE. If someone kicks in the door at our place, it'll be the last thing they ever do on planet earth. My son and I are FULLY READY. Not knowing whether they have a gun or not means I won't be taking ANY time to talk to them or figure anything out. BOOM - BOOM - BOOM - BOOM. Invading our place will be their LAST mistake.
     
    wrat1 likes this.
  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    So, anybody know of anyone who used a gun to stop a home invasion?

    I know of one, a love triangle, out of thousands of people I've known over 70 years.
     
    stormountainman likes this.
  11. Toecutter

    Toecutter Moderator

    My Mother.
     
    Eric! likes this.
  12. Rocket73

    Rocket73 Supporters HipForums Supporter

    Being British, owning guns is very difficult, you have to be vetted by police and you have to prove you need a gun such as a farmer ect, they must be locked in a steel cabinet with ammunition kept in a separate place, this is for shot guns , you would never usually able to own a hand gun, and defiantly not anything like a AK47, there is a 5 year jail sentence for even carrying a knife in public unless it's connected to your work or in a tool box, out police force do not carry guns , we have an police armed response unit to deal with armed robbery ect and is heavily regulated,
     
    scratcho, Eric! and MeAgain like this.
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    So that's two out of, how many thousands?
     
  14. Toecutter

    Toecutter Moderator

    What is your point, if you don’t know anyone, it doesn’t happen?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Let me explain....
    In my case I've known and do know literally (that means for real) thousands of people of all age groups, races, and religions, rich and poor, who have lived in hundreds, probably thousands of homes.
    I've known people who live all across my state and in several other states all across the nation, in the country and the city, in private homes, duplexes, apartments, and dormitories.
    I was born in 1951 so I've known thousands of people for over seventy years. That's over 25,250 days. If we limit a home intrusion to an hour, just to make the math easier, that gives us over 613,200 possible hours for a break in to occur in seventy years. Multiply 613,200 by just a hundred households, although I've known far more households in my time than that, for example there were about 700 students in my graduating class in high school; that gives us 61,320,000 opportunities for a home break in over seventy years. Just for me.
    If I did the math correctly.

    In that seventy years I know of one use of a gun to stop a home invasion.
    So, I'm no mathematician but I figure the odds are about 61,320,000 to 1 in my case.
    That doesn't mean it can't happen to me tomorrow, or today for that matter, but I think the odds are pretty low.
     
    scratcho likes this.
  16. Toecutter

    Toecutter Moderator

    Out of those 25,250 days have you met a murder, rapist, child molester ?
     
  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Sure, I knew a dude who stabbed someone to death with a spark plug tester.

    [​IMG]
    He went to the pen.
    Knew a dud who was an enforcer for a bike club, rumor is he killed someone over some motorcycle club thingy.
    Had a student that that participated in a murder for hire. Walked into this guy's cabin and shot him with a shotgun as he was sleeping on a couch. He never had a chance to use a weapon in defense.
    Had a student who stabbed another kid in the back in the middle of a wrestling mat during a meet. The kid did survive.

    None of their victims ever had a chance to use a gun in defense.

    Never knew a rapist or child molester that I know of.
     
  18. Toecutter

    Toecutter Moderator

    Good, then you know that evil exists and may strike at anytime with no warning,
     
  19. granite45

    granite45 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Thinking that more and more guns will stop violence is like thinking that spending more and more will get one out of debt.
     
    Tyrsonswood and MeAgain like this.
  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    No, I don't agree that evil exists as a entity.
    I would say that some people do stupid things and hurt others in the process at various times.
    And they can strike with no warning, that's one of my points. If someone attacks you with no warning, especially with the intent of killing you, it is very hard to defend yourself. For example, if you own a gun to protect your home and I invade it, unknown to you, with no warning, and I come upon you, with no warning, and I aim a gun at your head with, no warning, it would be pretty hard to stop me with your gun as I got "the drop" on you. Especially if you have children in the house and have your gun secured in some manner to protect them from accidental discharge.

    The only example I know of where a gun was used for home defense involved a love triangle, as I stated. The home invader got drunk and called up the other dude and said something to the effect that he was coming for him for messing with his girlfriend. He then drove the the guy's house and proceeded to beat on his front door with a baseball bat. The guy called the state police and told them what was going on but as this was in the country they told him it would take them at least an hour to get there. They told him to, "Do what he had to do." So he waited until his door was beat in and the guy entered and he shot him dead.
    He could have run out the back door and he later stated it was the worse thing he had ever done and involved years of legal bills and court hearings before he was proclaimed guilt free.

    Now to be clear I'm not agaisnt having a gun for home defense, this guy used a pistol. I lived down the road from him a few years after this happened right beside the house the break in guy came from. In the house lived another guy, one of the break in friends, who made a few remarks to my wife, had just gotten out of prison and their house had bullet holes in the walls from him "having fun." So I kept a 410 handy as my wife could handle that pretty well. He later hung himself so that ended that.

    My point is the odds of needing a gun for home defense is very rare, extremely rare in fact, and there is no justification for not having it registered, no need for AR15s, etc.


    In addition, many "existing evils" can strike at any time with a far greater chance, such as tornadoes (I know of two people who were literally in the middle of two different ones and that was in an area where tornadoes are virtually unknown. I knew someone who fell off a six foot ladder and died. Two guys who fell off roofs. Several people killed in vehicle accidents. One in a comma for six months due to a motorcycle wreck. Someone who drowned in six feet of water and another who broke his neck at the beach and died when a wave slammed him into the sand.

    Now if you want to be prepared for all those existing evils I would suggest in addition to your gun you wear a helmet and life jacket at all times, never climb an object over five feet tall, drive an Abrams tank, and never leave your tornado shelter, all at the same time. Not to mention tying yourself into bed when you go to sleep.
     

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