Is it time to talk about guns?

There are a lot of variables there obviously, but I believe there have also been a significant number of resistance groups to folks like Hitler throughout history.
When did the French resistance decide to take up arms against their collaborative leadership and the Nazis?

And I don't personally carry for these reasons, as stated my concerns are for roving packs of meth heads, (AND to avoid confusion, the zombies out here are generally Caucasian. )

 

Sorry, pal. You seem self-absorbed and unable to empathize with fellow human who are legitimately worried about being slaughtered. You proudly announced to us YOU aren't afraid to go shopping. So that was about you, after all!

But as long as the armed and dangerous loonies are running loose on the streets, they'll tear it down again.

Of course, which is why we need to get their guns away from them.

Which ones do you have in mind? Some of them are necessary for our protection or well being.

The unarmed woman who was climbing through a window as part of a violent armed mob which assaulted and injured 140 law enforcement officers and killed one of them? No, I was talking about the mob that stormed our captiol building with their Confederate flags and Nazi slogans and assaulted officers with stun guns, pepper spray, baseball bats and flagpoles wielded as clubs: one officer killed, 140 injured. Only the grace of God kept them from the members of Congress.

To my shame for calling attention to the phenomenon of disproportionate law enforcement abuse of people of color?

Yes, but the ones with the darker skins seem to be particularly unlucky. Police Shootings: Black Americans Disproportionately Affected [Infographic]

Continue to paddle your canoe down De Nial, which ain't just a rive in Africa. But by denying the problems, you're not contributing to solutions, and are therefore part of the problem. I inherited my Dad's collection of Mad Magazines, featuring on the covers the grinning face of an idiotic looking character named Alfred E. Neuman, with the slogan "What, me worry? Your posts remind me of him.

 

I'd lay my two cents at this being related to "merican sepshinalism" where every kid grows up expecting to be the next Kid Rock or some other ego-whore.

"We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.”

And some apparently more than others.

 

Well, I can only speak for myself.

If you are legitimately too frightened to go shopping, then I empathize with you. What would it take for you to feel safe enough to emerge from your bunker and join the rest of us in the sunshine?

 

You don't say what part of the country you're from. Here in the rural South we have what is known as the "Southern gun culture", in which guns and hunting feature prominently as a rite of passage from father to son (and now daughter). Puddifoot and Cooke, 2002; Felson and Pare, 2010; Altheimer and Boswell, 2012. Guns are important on farms to keep the critters in line, but beyond such practical mundane concerns, they are culturally important in parent-child bonding. But that ritual always went together with instructions on responsible gun ownership. But there's a heavy price in body count attached to this tradition.
The Costs of Southern Gun Culture
Why the South Loves Guns
The South had roughly a quarter of the U.S. population in 2013-19, but accounted for over two-fifths of its homicides, according to the FBI. Why The South Is More Violent Than The Rest Of America
Because this attitude toward guns is cultural, it is non-rational and highly resistant to rational argument. It fits in with Great Replacement fears that a precious way of life is disappearing. The only hope is that we can focus on reasonable measures of gun control like background checks and elimination of assault-style weapons. I hope you didn't give your children those to play with.

 

Some sensible gun laws, such as background checks. I personally live in a small town and take walks at all hours of the night without much fear of assault, so it varies with the locale.

 

Nor are they sacred.

 

So you canna be bothered to provide any actual evidence? Too much time taken outta yer keyboard warrioring hours? If in fact you canna be bothered then the simple response is this. I will not do your work for you Balbus. You present assertions and when asked to show the underpinnings of tut hose assertions you instead attempt to skitter yer way around and twist the responsibility away from yourself.

Again I WILL NOT do yer work for you.

 

Literally?

I think Balbus' request is reasonable. There are lots of little sort of excuses why debate can't go on. But I don't see a strong defense for the gun enthusiasm.




He has pointed out the room for improvement. I see a lot of denial!



You guys don't appear very accountible for "responsible" gun owners.

 

Guess I should've seen this coming

Yes, if by literally you mean my saying that I will not do Balbus' work for him. This isn't a discussion, it's a crap flinging parade made by those with no actual experience in what they espouse.

What would be a "strong defense "? As with any current political insanity plaguing our world these days no defense is strong enough when neither side is using evidence to build their cases. It's all simply echo chambers and confirmation biases. Also if Balbus' requests were "reasonable " it would stand to reason that he should be held to the same standard.

So do I......so do I.......

I'm a homeless man living on the streets of some city somewhere in Indiana. I do not own a gun. Though there are, admittedly, times I've wished I did. There are also many times I'm grateful that I don't. Moving on.....

If neither side can provide actual evidence; rather than supposition, derogatory statements, and confirmation biases, then neither side is worth hearing.

You all want equality? There it is. True ******* equality.

 

What exactly is it you want evidence of? That there are mentally disturbed individuals armed with assault weapons gunning down innocent people on an almost daily basis in this country? Is that an issue in dispute? That there are armed bands calling themselves militias intimidating state legislators and ordinary citizens trying to exercise their rights of free speech? Oregon’s Legislative Chaos Has Senators Fleeing to Idaho and a Militia Threatening the Capitol
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/04/30/armed-protesters-flood-michigan-capitol-as-legislature-votes-to-extend-whitmer-state-of-emergency-n387192
Oath Keepers: The heavily armed white vigilantes in Ferguson, explained
That background checks and control of assault weapons might be ways of reducing this carnage? Seems to me that common sense would support those conclusions. The contrary arguments--my daddy handed me a gun when I was five , if everybody was armed to the teeth there would be no more mass shootings, we need our assault rifles to protect us when the power grid goes down, when the guv'mint in the black helicopters comes for us we can take to the woods with our guns and engage 'em in guerilla warfare, etc.--don't seem convincing, in my opinion. Plenty of other industrial countries that are as free and democratic as our own seem to get along fine while going much farther in gun control, banning all guns in civilian hands. It's very easy to say in any debate to throw up your hands and say "both sides" without offering meaningful input.

 

Fritz

Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any successful or significant resistance groups to ‘folks like Hitler’ in modern history – there have been revolutionaries or terrorists or popular (unarmed) movements.

I mean the Vichy government in France and the Nazis government in German where both overthrown my invasion by Allied armies.

As I pointed out the predominantly right wing/conservative gun owners and police in 1930’s Germany did not oppose the rise of Hitler because many supported him.

And as I’ve said about the US it a matter of when or if would the gun owners act – what would cause them to act and against who?

 

Horse

Sorry but I do think your personal animosity to having your views challenged is getting in the way of you been able to debate honestly.

To repeat my contention is that there isn’t an equivalence in the arguments over this issue of gun control that the scales are heavily weighted in favour of the supporters of gun control.

The ‘actual evidence’ as I’ve explained before is the content of the thread, and to repeat I don’t know how any objective observer could have come to other conclusions if they had read it.

So, I have given my conclusions based on the evidence if you dispute them then the burden is on you to refute them, if you are unable to do so then the conclusion would stand.

 

Just to be clear:

Asking for you to be honest in debate and provide thoughtful prose and evidentiary citation is not doing his work for him.

The gold standard in forum posting is Balbus.

It's not fooling anyone when folks come around stinking about how "Oh I don't have to back up my comment" because if it's not factual, it can't be agreed upon.





One example is the CDC providing guidance on gun violence and homicide. That's perfectly legitimate, and I've provided links.


No one follows them, but they are there.







AGAIN: Firearm Violence Prevention |Violence Prevention|Injury Center|CDC


Here is the position on firearms that is neutral. It seems to indicate

& also

 

I'm not sure what you mean and suspect you just want to indicate your disdain for the left/support for the right and don't really have any evidence that people have no experience.

What experience is necessary other than flipping lackadaisically through the television only to be met with reports of the latest mass casualty by a gun enthusiast?

 

And neither appear in their sacred text, the 2nd Amendment.

 

Shane

Everywhere in nearly all developed countries not just the US, but still comparable countries have comparable general crime figures its just that the US has much larger incidences of gun related deaths and injuries

Not sure what your point is? The issue is all gun related deaths – are you saying there shouldn’t be gun control because you don’t care about suicides and illegally owned guns? I mean as stated the main objective of gun control is to try and keep guns out of the hands of the criminal and irresponsible

But the US has much higher gun related deaths figures than other comparable countries

But the US has much higher gun related deaths figures than other comparable countries

As already stated, comparable countries have comparable general crime figures its just that the US has much larger incidences of gun related deaths and injuries

As already stated, comparable countries (without ease of access to guns) have comparable general crime figures it’s just that the US (with much more easy access to guns) has much larger incidences of gun related deaths and injuries

If you mean DGU then that has been covered

If you mean DGU then that has been covered

 

Here is something I posted in 2016

First up I should point out that statistically in nearly all developed countries crime seems to be on the wane and nobody seems to know why although there are many theories here are just a few - the reduction of lead in petrol (lead poisoning increase violent behaviour) , women getting more rights and entering the workplace (which some claimed has ‘feminised’ society, calming it) liberal abortion laws. (a theory advanced by the authors of Freakonomics who argued that making it easier to get an abortion has diminished the number of children born into the underclass.) an ageing population (oldies are less violent) even the popularity of computer games (people are getting their aggression out on pixals rather than people).

Even so the general crime figures for the US are roughly the same as many other nations the only really big anomaly is gun related deaths.

Even taking out gun related homicides from the general homicide rate gives a figure for the US that is roughly the same as these European nations (1.2).

Now it is very difficult comparing crime figures form differing countries due to both legal differences and statistical recording methods. For example, the US do not appear to include minor assaults, intimidation,and threats within their definition of violent crime while New Zealand does and these offences comprise nearly half of all violent crime in that country (NZ MoJ). And there are problems with population density the US has a much lower population density overall than in European countries although urban areas can e similar.

But let us do a bit of a broad overview.

Police Recorded Rape Cases per 100,000 Population

US – 28.6

England and Wales -27.7

France 16.2

Germany 8.9

Cases of Robbery per 100,000 Population

US – 133

England and Wales -137

France – 181

Germany – 60

Police Recorded Cases burglary 100,000 population

US – 715

England and Wales - 986

France – 513

Germany - 456

Police Recorded Vehicle Theft Cases per 100,000

US – 258

England and Wales - 215

France – 333

Germany – 106

Number of prisoners per 100,000

US – 716

England and Wales – 148

France – 101

Germany – 80

*

It seems to me that the fear and intimidation based ideas prevalent in the US (largest number of privately owned guns, large prison population) isn’t really working very well.

It hasn’t reduced general crime in any significant way but has led to much larger numbers of gun related crimes compared with others and all the problems associated with high prison populations

How To Argue For Gun Control.

And to give extra context

Firearm-related deaths rate per 100,000 population.

US –2011 10.3

Canada : 2.22

England and Wales – 0.22

France - 3.00

Germany – 1.10

Luxembourg - 2.02

Switzerland - 3.04

Homicides by any method per 100.000

US - 2011: 5.1

Canada : 1.6

England and Wales – 0.93

France : 1.2

Germany 0.8

Luxembourg 0.8

Switzerland 0.57

Gun related homicides per 100,000

US 2011: 3.6

Canada : 0.51

England and Wales 0.06

France - 0.22

Germany - 0.2

Luxembourg 0.62

Switzerland 0.16

My compromise for gun control

 

See original post requesting evidence from Balbus for his claims.

Interesting to me that because someone respectfully asks you to actually bother to back up your assertions you jump to the suffering victim card by claiming animosity. As to the rest of this it is increasingly clear that this is nothing but a vicious circle where I request you to substantiate yer claims and instead you continue to just wriggle around with yer words and employ evasion tactics. As such I am done. I can see there is no point in seeking rational dialogue.

If there was no evidentiary citation provided from the other side to begin with how can I address with my own. I'm not in the habit of shadow boxing.

As usual because someone asks for factual base to support the ideals espoused by one group they must surely be a part of the other. Rational discussion is dead it would seem. Continue on, I've nothing more to say.