Is it time to talk about guns?

We used to have firearms training in our public schools some six to seven decades ago. At one time the overwhelming sentiment was every American should be educated and trained.

It wasn't until those who wanted to be able to get away with more taking advantage of others started an emotional disinformation campaign to demonize these tools that opposition began to mount. And those people certainly aren't interested in training the populace safety and marksmanship!

 

I predict they're likely to side with the Constitution, which they happen to be sworn to protect.

 

I've been making that point in so many words.

 

You mean like rednecks?

 

Just FYI, I live in rural Arizona, the zombie hordes of most concern in these parts would be predominantly burnt out Caucasian meth head desert rat types who occasionally get their hands on a bag of bad shit or are just having a bad day and go apeshit.

Just thought I'd clear that up.

 

Are we even talking about the same thing?


You are radicalized as far as the eye can see, AND you're comparing apples and oranges...

Lemme illustrate...

So, the civilian population is killing each other, and we're not supposed to regulate that?! Ok...

And officers were killed in the line of duty, and somehow we're not doing enough to honor that. Ok... I can see that. We do owe them a debt of gratitude, but I suspect you're blowing smoke.

That is not the same thing.

You're sort of forgetting that African American people (why don't you call them 'black' more. Or colored...) are disadvantaged, marginalized, and disenfranchised. There is a severe racial disparity in many systemic areas: employment, justice, entertainment to name a few.


Am I trying to excuse them (African Americans in Chicago) now? (Probably your next move... )

No. This behavior is not acceptable. It's not excusable. It's also not their fault*.


Am I doing this too condescending?


So to summarize, in law enforcement there are risks of course - like the army or the marines on acid... But there's glory and honor; even when it's underrepresented. Anyway, so should we acknowledge policework? Yeah! Absolutely.

Should we disavow the role of racial disparity in urban communities such as Chicago? Absolutely not.






I feel like you're disavowing. Big time.

 

what else are they though? that's like "Crack is a stimulant." Can we honestly safely leave it at that?

 

Police killings of Black Americans amount to crimes against humanity, international inquiry finds

 

Warren Zevon - Lawyers, Guns And Money - 4/18/1980 - Capitol Theatre (Official) - Bing video

 

OMG...sounds like talking points from the NRA. How come the increasing plethora of purposefully lethal weapons is associated with an increase in gun deaths including mass shootings? The correlation coefficient for the relationship between gun deaths and gun availability is about .99 .....but not in the direction the gun lobby fantasizes. I spent many years doing statistical analysis and quickly learned if the data doesn’t support the hypothesis, it’s probably time to consider other hypotheses.

 

I'm pretty cheap, the $1.25 a pop for .45LC is enough to make me pause to do a little math.

 

Lots of cognitive dissonance -> word salad after facts are presented clearly.

Rethink it, guys...

Out in left field.

 

Wrat1

Sorry but the opinion piece is just some right-wing rant the usual thing of trying to pass off what are in whole or part essentially social problems on to the individual and falls again into the trap of American exceptionalism.

So the thesis that mass shooting are the result of an individual’s self-control rather than ease of access to guns doesn’t stand up to even the slightest of examination – many countries have similar or higher levels of obesity and divorce than the US and people in other countries also go to the cinema and see movie stars and athletes as role models, but those other countries don’t have the ease of access to guns and so don’t have the same level of gun related deaths.

 

Kathys

AGAIN can you please read the thread this has already been covered

The whole point of the gun control measures been proposed is to lessen the possibility of guns falling into the hands of the criminal and irresponsible it is not about asking the criminals to ‘turns theirs in’ it is about lessen the possibility of then been able to have them.

 

Kathys

The fundamental thing here is why are you not asking the most basic question – why

10 million police arrests per year – why – why is the figure so high - why does the US have the largest prison populations in the world

In 2019, the arrest rate for the US was 3,011 arrests per 100,000 of the population. In the same year the arrest rate for the UK was 12 arrests per 100,000 of the population.

Number of police officers killed in the UK during the line of duty in 2019 – one (he was hit by a car) the number of people fatally shot by police in 2019 - three.

Clearly the US has a problem and when a rational person sees a problem they ask themselves why does that problem exist, because that is the first step to dealing with the problem. The irrational responce is to either ignore or accept the situation and do nothing.

So again my question to you kathys is why are you seemingly not asking why – why are you seemingly accepting the bad situation even seeming to want the killing to go on?

To repeat my last reply when you brought this up last time -

In another gun related debate I had one person tell me that they were not interested in gun control because they believed that most gun related deaths involved black or brown criminals and he was quite happy to see such people die.

But as I asked then - were such people born criminals.

If you had read this thread you would know that the main aim of gun control is to try and lessen the possibility of guns falling into the hands of the irresponsible and criminal.

But it is also understood that tackling the US gun issue is not just about gun control measures it is about looking at tackling crime in a different way by looking at and addressing the cause of crime rather than the symptoms

For example - If criminality and the violence that comes with it are the result of current drug policies then change the drug policies so that it reduces or stops creating criminal activity.

And also ask why are people turning to criminality, have they education, have they hope, have they employment?

 

It is easy to see the division in this thread

Its s between those that support gun control and have reasonable and rational argument and who are willing to answer questions and address criticisms and those on the pro-gun lobby side that don’t.

I do often get the feeling that for many right wingers just to call something ‘socialism’ or ‘communism’ or the person suggesting it a ‘socialist’ or ‘communist’ makes them feel that it gives them an instant ‘win’ and that no actual rational counter argument is needed.