Is it time to talk about guns?

Yup. We’ve prioritized our national fetish for so long it’s going to take another generation of kids murdered at school to fix

 

It was a very heated discussion at the Constitutional convention as to whether the Bill of Rights should be included in the Constitution at all. Seems the rationale for NOT including it was that someday, some asshole would try to repeal it. To th ese founders, it was "self evident" that these rights were God Given, and there was no need to include them. The founders who wished to ensure the new government kept its promise to never infringe on these human rights, it was only right that they be enshrined. I, and many others, have raised our hand and taken an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. We don't pledge our lives to a flag, or a President, or a passing flight of fancy. It's a shame that public school no longer teaches these values, but it's the wonder of our country that so many still pedge and give their lives for the very values others mock. We can no more repeal the right to self defense, than we can repeal the law of gravity.

 

Scared, weak men with a creepy fetish

 

This topic is not in need of further discussion, it's a closed subject, and has been since 1776. End of discussion, I'm out

 

Lol brave man dropping out in 1776, 90 years before the amendment to the constitution that freed slaves and 150 years before the amendment to the constitution that gave women the right to vote. Classic fetish, put me first attitude. Guns are all weak and cowardly men care about

 

So look at the rest of the world. No other developed nation even comes close in terms of firearm deaths nor did the US of 60 or more years ago. Why? Well the only logical reason is that the US was flooded with highly lethal military style weapons that made gun manufacturers and dealers rich. I’d be happy to go back to the status quo of 1957. Before the NRA pushed insane logic like the good guy with a gun, the 2nd amendment, arm teachers. None of those crazy ideas have any effect except to raise the number of gun deaths. We become less safe.

Or maybe there’s a genetic defect in many American men and a few women that turns into a drive to kill ourselves off. Could be this rogue DNA is activated be a toxic testosterone trigger that shuts off the logic and reasoning portion of the brain. Whatever, the rest of us are sick and tired on being held hostage.

Did you just feel a rumble? May be its the authors of the first 10 amendments turning over in their graves watching the crazy 2nd amendment folks descending the escalator of group insanity.

 

What's your point?
That has been done for generations yet, throughout, hasn't the Constitution changed, with all the amendments?

 

What exactly have you done to “defend, protect, preserve the constitution”…in what capacity? Law enforcement? Military service? “Oath Keeper” affiliate?

 

This is in the constitution before his 1776 date - should we defend, protect and preserve it? Or is it just the gun fetish he wants to protect? That’s a rhetorical question of course. I know it’s just love of inanimate objects

“any person who was not free would be counted as three-fifths of a free individual for the purposes of determining congressional representation”

I’m of course skipping over the mistake our constitutional scholar made on the 1776 date, as the document wasn’t ratified until over a decade later lol

 

Yup. He’s not honest or brave enough to say he just has a gun fetish and the rest is rationalization

 

I am more concerned with actual gun crime than any purported "gun fetish". A lot more people than just school children are at risk from gun crime.

I am less afraid of " Highly leathal military style weapons" then the plain old handgun.

The constraints that all of these arguments are presented in do reflect political prejudice.

 

Yeah I think when you misunderstand the basic constitutional facts used to hastily justify your position ignoring all other aspects of the argument along the way, and when your access to guns is more important than our children’s lives, then fetish is exactly the right word - because it really is a fetish at that point

 

You know what? FUCK THE 2nd AMENDMENT!
It's a pernicious leftover from a time when we were a confederation of states, had no standing army, and the average 'assault weapon' had a maximum effective range of 100 yards and a rate of fire of 4 rounds a minute. Now we garrison the largest and most powerful empire the world has ever known; nearly 800 military bases in over 150 countries, spending more on war than the next ten largest militaries combined (8 of which are allies). The one and only raison d'être of the 2nd Amendment; to maintain "a well regulated militia", has been a moot point for over 100 years. Since 1968, more than 1.5 million Americans have been shot to death; more than in all of our foreign wars combined.
It's nothing short of obscene to try to rationalize this degree of carnage based upon reverence for an irrelevant legislative fossil which should have disappeared along with buggy whips and high-button shoes.
The Constitution has been amended 27 times, most recently in 1992. There's absolutely no goddamned reason that the 2nd Amendment should be held sacrosanct.

 

This is why it’s a fetish. So many people don’t care about the constitutional argument anyway. They’re fine letting voting rights and women’s rights be decided by states, but access to their proxy manhood shall not be infringed. Fetish

 

The Louisiana Legislature a week or so ago passed a bill allowing anyone over 21 to carry a concealed weapon! No permit required. No training required. WTF?

Oh, and at the last minute they raised the age, which had been anyone over 18!

I'd bet a lot of cops just loved hearing that.

 

With Originalism being so trendy these days, it's important to remember intent, and exactly what the Sacred Founding Fathers meant by "a well regulated militia"; slave patrols.

How Slave Owners Dictated the Language of the 2nd Amendment
Fervor for 2nd Amendment rooted in slave patrols
The Second Amendment & The Right to Kill Black People
The dark history of the Second Amendment

 

I am no longer open to arguing the original post, but I will answer this question, seeing as personal attacks have become the argumentative means of several. What I have done is serve honorably in the United States Air Force, having first enlisted, and then returning to service as a commissioned officer, now highly decorated for my service and retired. My service spanned both Vietnam and Iraq wars. I'm also a competitive shooter, having won in several categories to include both rifle and pistol competition, and am recognized in a number of agencies as a firearms expert. I am also the son of WWII veteran, who fought bravely in the Philippines, receiving the Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart, having been wounded by a grenade during hand-to-hand combat, of whom I am justifiably proud.

I will also add that the petty personal attacks of one "MollyCuddled" as 'He’s not honest or brave enough', while some might argue should be 'reported', are not going to get much traction on a forum that is so incapable of acceptance of anyone with an alternative viewpoint from such a skewed viewership. I therefore have chosen to end participation in this particular forum, and to no longer communicate in any manner with this particular individual. I must say that it amazes me that a web site that purports to support acceptance and/or the expression of so many viewpoints would allow such conduct, and makes a mockery of the site itself.

 

Lol “alternative viewpoint”. Your facts are wrong and your feelings got hurt

 

Well said.

But don't leave the thread. Because as Pres. Biden said yesterday, while praising the Speaker for "good faith" debate and interaction, we all need each other to find compromises that work well enough to continue our bumpy ride to democracy.

And 'ad hominem' phrasing is really counter-productive.