Is it time to talk about guns?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So in conclusion:
    Correct banning assault weapons doesn't stop all crimes, all firearm deaths, or how lethal guns are in general.
    Correct there are so many guns that aren't labeled assault weapons, they are involved in many more deaths. (Although assault weapons can cause many more deaths in a much shorter amount of time.)
    Mass shooting don't always involve assault weapons, they can involve a black powder six shooter. So what?

    I found little evidence of conflicting results in the studies indicated in your Wiki link. I think one of the studies out of all of them.
     
  2. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Hope you enjoyed the reading
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yes, I did. It supported my contention that the federal ban on assault guns was effective.

    Unfortunately when I read your post I thought that there were many studies that reported otherwise.
    It takes a lot of work and time to get to the real facts, but in the interest of truth it's worth it in the long run.
     
  4. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Always, just the facts.
     
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    [​IMG]
     
    Toecutter likes this.
  6. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Philadelphia teens beat 73-year-old man to death with traffic cone, in attack caught on video: police


    A group of seven teenagers attacked and killed a 73-year-old man in Philadelphia last month with a traffic cone according to video footage released by the Philadelphia Police Department Friday.


    Disturbing footage of the incident, which occurred on June 14, shows a group of apparent teenagers pursuing the victim identified as James Lambert down the 2100 block of Cecil B. Moore Avenue in the city’s northwest corridor.
     
  7. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    What does this have to do with the thread?
     
  8. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    "Can't ban guns, guys will just use traffic cones instead...."
     
  9. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    You are right,

    A group of teenagers stalking and beating a 73 year old man to death at 3:00 a.m. has nothing to do with guns.


    The same with this article,

    'I have no words': Man jumped by group of teens while walking down Philadelphia street



    PHILADELPHIA - A Philadelphia man is facing a long road to recovery after his wife says he was robbed and badly beaten by a group of teenagers while he was walking to a concert.

    Michelle Ferrara said her husband Benjamin left their Fairmount home just after 8 p.m. Friday to see a show at Union Transfer when he was attacked 2 blocks away.
     
  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So what point are you trying to make? Does it have something to do with carrying a gun with you at all times?

    I don't understand.
     
    Tyrsonswood likes this.
  11. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Do you think that the outcome would have been different ?
     
  12. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment Lifetime Supporter

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    So... If you ever see anybody pick up a traffic cone, you should be allowed to shoot them dead.


    Seems legit.
     
  13. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Agreed. We are in a Hobbesian state.

    In the Uvalde school and at Margaret Stoneman Douglas / Parkside,Fl. our security was unable or unwilling to protect us.

    Some DA's / prosecutors are unwilling to detain dangerous crimimals.

    Those ships have sailed.

    So now more citizens want to carry. its unfortunate. Its also understandable. We are already there.

    Today, in New York, the debate concerns the limits of self-defence in a Bodega assault/ stabbing that got the Bodega employee arested.

    One pundit was seeking a "Stand your Ground" rule for New York City, like they have in FLA.

    The Florida "Stand your Ground" was what got the shooter of Trayvon Martin off the hook for the murder.

    Please do not think any of this makes me happy..
     
    MeAgain likes this.
  14. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    I'm impressed! You've really done a yeoman's job of systematically exposing the misinterpretations and misuse of statistics that seem to be the gun lobby's stock in trade.To me, mass shootings present a special challenge to the civic order that ordinary homicides don't. People have been killing each other since Cain offed Abel. We all know that wasn't done by an AR-15 (fake news reports to the contrary Archaeologists Discover AR-15 Cain Used To Kill Abel) But it wasn't a mass murder either Offing large numbers at once are much harder to do with bare hands, rocks, clubs, knives, etc. And the feds don't seem to be gathering statistics on that particular problem.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Do I think the outcome would have been different if the man who had been jumped at 3:00 AM by a group of teens had a gun?
    Insufficient data.
    Maybe different, maybe the same.

    Same with the 8:00 dude.
    In his case apparently four teens ran up behind him. I don't know how a gun would help when you are ambushed from behind.

    What do you think?
    With the limited amount of information you posted about these incidents what do you conclude?
     
  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The gun lobby et al are still using the old Swiftboating tactics they developed when Kerry was running for president.
    Throw out a bunch of distortions, misrepresentations, cherry picked data, bad logic, and even out right lies; knowing that most people lack the time or energy to fact check what they are saying.

    Here's an example.
    Premise: An assault weapon ban will have a significant impact on all crime.
    The National Assault Weapons ban had no effect on all crime overall. (Which may be true)
    Conclusion: The National Assault Weapons ban had no effect.

    So we start with a faulty premise, as no specific law will ever have a significant impact on all crime even if it eliminates the specific crime it is written for, then we cherry pick data for a statement of the obvious, the National Assault Weapons ban had no effect on all crime overall, and then use it to proclaim, "See the National Assault Weapons ban doesn't work."

    Most people look at the cherry picked data, and never stop to truly understand the faulty logic involved in reaching the conclusion as it takes time, effort, and thought to understand what is being presented Most people are to busy looking up porn.
     
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  17. Toecutter

    Toecutter Senior Member

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    Agreed, with the information provided in both articles, it’s not reasonable or unreasonable to think that either of the men if they had a firearm could have saved them from being murdered and severely beaten.
     
  18. Piobaire

    Piobaire Village Idiot

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  19. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Premise: An assault weapon ban will have a significant impact on all crime.
    ...........................................................................................................................................
    Dont think so at all. A ban would insure that there are a lot of Illegal assault weapons out there.

    Do everyday normal gun people support the ban? seems a no brainer. even for a gun collector.

    I support the ban. Activists will then need to change thier attention to everyday everyweekend gun crime.

    I would like to see more attention to high probability crimes. The cost of this is to accede to the assault weapons ban. Ban em.
     
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  20. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The last federal ban of assault weapons didn't ban current weapons, they were grandfathered, it only banned the sale of new weapons.
    The ban didn't create any new illegal weapons.
     
    Piney likes this.

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