Is it time to talk about guns?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    But it's not about prohibition (please read the gun control proposals posted in this thread)

    It is about putting in place sensible regulation to try and lessen the likelihood of guns falling into the hands of the criminal and irresponsible.

    And nobody has yet come up with any rational or reasonable argument why that would not be a good idea.
     
  2. SantaCruzRob

    SantaCruzRob Contributor

    I think it is time to talk about mental health.

    Chicago has some of the most strict regulations, not helping them much.

    How about the mental health of people that harm others?
     
  3. MrJingles

    MrJingles Members

    Most people who possess firearms and who use them for non-legal purposes don't get them from a legal source.

    Tackling the major undelying drivers of gun and gang related crime (such as inequality and other related issues) would, I'm no doubt go a long way towards reducing firearms offences.

    Non-legal gun related violence tends to happen most in areas where guns are not legally owned.
     
    soulpoker likes this.
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Jen

    LOL sorry i’m not a mind reader - I can only go on what people write - so when something is written that seems to me to be saying something or imply something I say ‘you seem to be saying…..’

    This allows the person to correct me if that is not what they were trying to say, if they don’t come back with a correction and explanation of why that wasn’t the case then the accusation stands.

    That is how debate works - the only people that wouldn’t understand that are those who have never actually debated before.

    Thing is that I often find that the thing I thought they were implying when examined was exactly what they were implying
     
  5. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Jen

    Any rational and reasonable society regulates to mitigate risk.

    Think of all the regulations associated with driving - you have to have training and pass a test before been given a licence and then you need insurance and keep the car road worthy....

    You then have to follow all the rules of the road including such things as not driving recklessly or under the influence.

    Driving is heavily regulated

    And many people that wish for gun control think gun ownership should be just as regulated to mitigate against risk

    But a car is not a gun - and there should be regulations tailored to each.

    For example cars were not designed to be weapons they are modes of transport and are therefore more useful and more used than a gun and for that reason far more people drive than own a gun.

    We have laws in place to deter people from drinking and driving - these can involve heavy fines and terms of imprisonment and bans from being able to drive.

    The police can stop anyone they suspect of drink driving and the driver has to comply with their request to be tested.

    Yes deaths due to drink driving do occur but society has tried to mitigate against the possibility and is always looking to lessen the risk further there is even talk of fitted all cars with anti-drink driving technology.

    But many pro-gun people are opposed to nearly any prident gun control regulations aimed a reducing the risked associated with gun owner.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  6. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Santa

    Already covered post 60

    Many other countries have intolerance and mental health care problems but don’t have the gun problem’s the US has however they don’t have the ease of access to guns that the US has.

    So honestly the ease of access to guns does seem to be the real issue

    I’d also point out that the right wingers that traditional support that ease of access have been those that seem the least interested in addressing intolerance and mental health issues. For example in opposing universal healthcare and in supporting voter suppression.
     
    Piobaire likes this.
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Jingles

    Already covered - in this thread alone 43, 45, 129

    According to the FBI virtually all the guns in criminal hands were bought legally then passed on to criminals or stolen by them.

    Already covered this thread 157

    I’ve said many times that to tackle the gun issue it needs a holistic approach it is not just about gun control laws but things like healthcare reform, drug policy reform and welfare reform.

    Can you back this up and not sure what your point is?

    I mean given that the US does not have state border checks guns can easily travel around the US that is why gun control supporters what Federal laws rather than local ones.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2021
  8. wrat1

    wrat1 Members

    this would seem to disagree with your above statement
    Source and Use of Firearms Involved in Crimes: Survey of Prison Inmates, 2016 (bjs.gov)

    An estimated 287,400 prisoners had possessed a firearm during their offense. Among these, more than half (56%) had either stolen it (6%), found it at the scene of the crime (7%), or obtained it off the street or from the underground market (43%). Most of the remainder (25%) had obtained it from a family member or friend, or as a gift.
     
    noodist_jen likes this.
  9. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    wrat1

    Why?

    Where do you think the guns obtained from the street and underground markets came from?
     
  10. wrat1

    wrat1 Members

    Khyber Pass copy - Wikipedia

    there is a good documentary from vice about the counterfeit gun makers
    its on hbo I think, watched it quite a while back it was eye opening
     
  11. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Wrat1

    Again I'm unsure what your argument is? Maybe if you actually answered the questions given to you and addressed the criticisms levelled at your views you might make some sense.
     
  12. wrat1

    wrat1 Members

    noodist_jen likes this.
  13. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Wrat1

    Again I'm unsure what your argument is? Maybe if you actually answered the questions given to you and addressed the criticisms levelled at your views you might make some sense.
     
  14. Balbus

    Balbus Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    OK - Thing is that there is this rather desperate argument put forward by some pro gun lobby people

    It goes like this - if there were gun control measures and they worked in lessening legally held guns from falling into the hands of criminals and the irresponsible - then the criminals and the irresponsible would still be able to get guns - in the same numbers - from other sources - from homemade guns and from smuggled in guns.

    The thing is that as pointed out many times - that is not a big problem in countries that have already got gun control measures in place and where it is already illegal to make homemade guns or smuggle them into the country.

    It's the same old - ‘it will never work’ argument that claims nothing can be done so nothing should be done.
     
  15. wrat1

    wrat1 Members

    noodist_jen likes this.
  16. noodist_jen

    noodist_jen Member

    Oh, okay, that's a simple answer. Us = the people, the constituents of the elected 'government' WE elect to represent US... and You = well, YOU, Biden and everyone who wants US disarmed.
     
  17. noodist_jen

    noodist_jen Member

    Well, that's an ill-informed statement. Absolutely NO ONE is saying that "nothing should be done." We just have different approaches. Your side wants to eliminate all guns, which is totally understandable, but un-feasible... here in the United States.
     
  18. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

    no... they're just not saying what should be done, and crossing their fingers and toes in hopes that it'll be "nothing".




    :rolleyes:
     
  19. noodist_jen

    noodist_jen Member

    That's also 'ill-informed,' if you actually believe that. There are already laws in place, which ARE NOT being enforced! So yeah, let's just make more laws, which we won't enforce... until all of US (law-abiding citizens) are disarmed.
     
  20. noodist_jen

    noodist_jen Member

    Cop out!
     

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