is it obvious if your tripping

i agree noxious. do some reading about LSx chemicals, and tell me what you find. do my research for me, cuz i haven't done a lot.

and if we are talking about a 100 ug dose of LSD, and another LSx is half as potent...200 ug would still fit on a blotter. they can hold a mg or more.
the above example could potential halve the producers profits though, unless precursors or something saved money to begin with...but i would guess that the chemistry is VERY similar to make LSD vs. LSM for example...the differ by only a few carbons (or other atoms), just like all the other examples we are all aware of.

i have a batch of stuff now that feels a lot like LSD but just a little bit different - onset is SUPER fast (30 mins), trip is sorta short (like 6-8 hours?)

could be a higher dose than i'm used to...and the timing is just me lookign for something funny, and my overall "getting used to" tripping.


it seems pretty common that something sold as LSD turns out to be DOx. even that i'd bet is more like...5%?

as far as other lysergamieds...i'm still on the fence. and i'm trying to tell myself to forget it, because i know those hits are NICE whatever they are. and i'm 99% sure they aren't DOx or NBOMe anything


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_2,4-dimethylazetidide

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_2-butyl_amide

read those two specifically
both are possibly more potent than LSD
tis a bit complicated though

the first one also has unconfirmed reports of it being synthed and distributed on blotter


here's a pretty interesting article about Pickard, Skinner, and "neuro soup" that MIGHT get to LSD analogues
http://www.vice.com/read/life-is-a-cosmic-giggle-803-v18n5
page 6 has a pretty cool picture


/derail

 

LOL, yeah poor guy comes on here to ask a simple question and his thread gets completely hijacked.
Sorry LSDiviner

 

we answered it 1st

 

its obvious if you have handcuff on. you've been arrested..

 

The whole first page was answers and comments. But he seems like another 2 post wonder that probably shouldn't
playing with stuff in the first place. This place is full of good advice but people refuse to look.

I have to agree with NO. I looked through all the links, interesting. When you eliminate the ones that aren't potent in >2mg range (about the upper limit of typical blotter capacity), eliminate the ones that have tangibly different effects, the Nbomes as Roor said with those you have to skip first pass for them to be active, when you eliminate all those variables there are only a couple left that are substantially similar to LSD and can be put on the standard 1/4 x 1/4 hit. BTW bigger than 1/4" is a clue it might be a DOx. A 14 hr experience is a clue it might be a DOx. Most people probably know this if they've read some. As one person here commented on their running into a DOx on blotter once, they could tell well into the trip that it wasn't LSD because it felt different and lasted too long. Sure there are a couple of things that COULD be passed off. Most we can do is conjecture how often it happens.

Here's Shulgins entry on LSD and commentary on analogues.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml

When it comes down to it, from the respectable amount of reading I've tried to do, along with the Erowid paper on the opening of a 50yr old Sandoz vial and compared to most "street acid" that people had experienced, my feeling
is that other things being passed off as acid, on blotter, is pretty rare.
Just my thoughts. I'm of the camp that the "impurities" and "no real acid" and "DOx or other substance" stories that get passed around are more myth than reality, with a dash of truth on rare occasions.

 

^ I'm sure there is some good LSD still out there as well, but I'm skeptical everything that lasts 4-48 hours and comes on blotter paper sold to someone as "LSD" or "acid" is in fact lysergic acid diethlyamide.

Numerous reports of short and long lasting 'different feeling' LSD-like experiences, confiscated psychoactive blotters that did not contain LSD, as well as a graph someone posted here recently of non-LSD lysergamides have been reported all in the past couple years. Set and setting is often used to describe the differences in effects but chalking it all up to that only goes so far imo, anyone experienced with various others series of chems (2cx, dox, mdxx) probably knows what I'm saying.

I've read somewhere that a single batch of LSD usually produces millions of doses so even if we elimate the non-lysergamides like Nbome/Dox chemicals we still have listed chemicals with comparable potency to LSD in : lsb, lsp, lsm, lsz, pro lad, pargy lad, and perhaps some others that were glossed over and if they are pumped out in any similar fashion as a batch of LSD, we're probably bordering on 10 million doses of non-LSD chemicals.

It's definitely an interesting excersise in the power of the mind and i'm generalizing here but, it seems myself and alot of younger heads may hold an overly skeptical view on the L situation, and alot of the older heads cannot open their minds to the possibility of these LSD-esque research chemicals being made available and more abundant in recent years.

Besides often reported shorter durations, most of these possible analogues seem like solid trips for the most part. So regardless of the situation, I think I'll probably assume most everything I have measured to the correct proportions on blotter is LSD and if it seems slightly different, I'll try to adjust to it and enjoy it.

 

I guess my main thought is about the financial feasibility of producing some of these substances instead of LSD.
Are they less costly to produce?
Are the yields worth it?
Is it worth it to produce them?
Lets take a look at PRO-LAD for example
According to Shulgin you start with nor-LSD, now nor-LSD is an intermediate substance produced in the synthesis of ETH-LSD. Now here's the kicker, the pre-cursor to synthesize ETH-LSD is LSD-25. So why even bother making PRO-LAD.

So that is the type of crap I'm talking about. Just because some of these substances exist does not mean that they are more attractive, easier to make, or more profitable to make than LSD-25. That is and always has been my point.
From some of things I have read, it seems that LSD-25 is still the most economically viable product to make.
I would really love it if anybody has any more specific info regarding this. I know if I was a chemist I certainly would go with the easier, less costly substance to produce and certainly not produce something that requires LSD as a pre-cursor

Not being closed minded GB, just being realistic and pragmatic about it.
It's all well and good to say it might be this or that, but is it practical from a "lets make a shit-ton of money" point of view?
Seriously, what intelligent person is going to make something like PRO-LAD or ALD-52 for sale purposes when they have to make LSD-25 as one of the ingredients?
It just doesn't make sense.

 

I think it is silly to speculate about why these other chems are being produced (if they are). I know I said that it could be because of easier to get analogues.
It's just that I have been told by a good friend in europe, who has proven he knows what he's talking about, that what a lot of people are buying in europe as acid isn't actually LSD-25. The same person told me that it was for other reasons than cost. He would not elaborate, but I believe him I think. He also told me that he actually prefers the other substance to LSD because of it's shorter duration and quicker come-up, but he also said that HPSD is much more prevalent with this other substance.

This was way back in february, and I don't remember all the details and a lot of details were left out.
I'm just gonna say, I have only had euro acid (about to change). I have tripped about 12 times on 2 different batches of euro stuff, and out of all the trips, none have been a normal 12 hour trip. On the first batch, low dose trips would be about 10 hours but doses higher than 3 hits would last 16 hours. On the second batch I tried which was liquid, none of my trips reached over 10 hours even on 7 drops. Most even ended after 8 hours, like a shroom trip.

Just saying, don't pass this off without considering the possibility seriously. Even if it is difficult to believe.

 

noxious, READ the links i posted man. there is one chemical that they specifically say doesn't need nor-LSD as a precursor. can't remember what it was and don't feel like digging it up again. but the chems you allude to are out there - ones that don't need LSD or nor-LSD as ingredients, and ones that are probably just as economically feasible, or more so, than good ole LSD.

just because it's been around the longest doesn't mean that LSD is the only way to go. with all the various chems being pumped out in this "age of RCs" why is it so hard for you to believe that other lysergamides are out there and are potentially being distributed?

LSD can't be the ONLY one that is feasible to produce by your standards


what was the euro blotter you had, upperlevel? (you've told me before i think)

 

I did read the links, pork. I only used the PRO-LAD as an example.
I don't know if there is or isn't other more economically viable substances out there, kinda why I asked if anyone had more specific info about them.

I will say that I wish people would actually label shit accurately so folks know what they are consuming. We already know through extensive research that LSD-25 is very safe. Can the same be said for these other substances? I don't know but certainly would like to.

 

OMg

 

?

 

to orison's animation


what, are you the government or something? there are several examples, some of which support your reasoning, so those are the ONLY ones you acknowledge? (i'm just bustin your balls man.)

i would think that adding a couple carbons to the LSD molecule wouldn't change its level of safety.
differing the lengths of those R groups alters receptor affinity, but it doesn't add anything dangerous to the molecule. only if the affinity got so incredibly high that it never let go. but it's not adding anything inherently toxic, so no nastier byproducts should be made from metabolizing it.

just speculation, like this whole damn thread

 

well you are the resident lab geek so I'll take your word for it.

 

just the:
avatars
fat cats
liquid

 

good. so next time someone offers you LS-B, -P, -Z, etc...you'll know it's probably safe to munch it down.

and just to be clear, i despise mis-labeling of drugs as much (or more) than you. most people here do i'm sure. but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

...but that doesn't mean that it necessarily happens a lot with LSD either

 

No, exactly. That was part of my point, you're right. LSD doesn't last 4 or 48 hrs. Period. Nor does it last a day or longer when you take large amounts. Nor can you dose, then dose again 8 hrs later, and keep tripping for days.

True as well. Having had 2Ce for the first time early this year, had someone told me it was L, I MIGHT have thought it was. But then again it had been 25+yrs. The first L experience months later, I was reminded. Oh, yeah! They have quantitatively different headspaces.

It would be silly to dismiss the idea of any analogues have made their way out into the wild, just as believing and repeating the urban myths of LSD that have been going around since the late 60's.

That's my take-away as well. I did go through all of those wiki links. The majority of the viable analogues were of the -LAD group. And if the variances are just an atom here or there, the synth must be quite similar, so in the end is their one or three of those that are pretty much the same, with easier or less regulated precursors, easier to make, etc?
Speaking of those links, there were several that made mention of being made available by way of RC sales, in a very vague way with exactly the same wording but not one reference on the page. As if one person was responsible for editing in those comments. Seemed sketch to me.

But did he say what it WAS? Your commentary with the trips certainly sounds like something different though.

But that's the byproduct of prohibition. A plain ol label wouldn't say much either.

That it is, but interesting to me.

FUCK! They are FAT FREDDIES CAT !!! Not fat cats !!!

(sorry, am a fan of Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers... it's blasphemy to say fat cats) :sunny:

 

i noticed that one-liner on each of the wiki pages too, voyage..

i forgot to mention that the batch of L i have right now (red stars) doesn't seem to dilate my pupils

 

If I have dosed i can walk into a room, examine everybody and immediately know if somebody is trippin. I dont know if its like this for anybody else but i can just look at them and determine if "they know"