Discussion in 'Christianity' started by puddin, Jan 6, 2005.
sooo all in all, everyone disagrees with natureistruebeauty87s comments..
not all the comments, but i believe buddha existed. i'm not sure what you're getting at.
so you think people who dont follow her beliefs go to hell to burn for eternity?
No I don't think so, but I know some people do believe that and if you say they can't believe that you are just like them. I don't agree with her, but I don't disagree with her believing that. Everyone needs to follow his own path, and if this is her way to God I think she will get there. Though I find it a disgusting idea.
"I could never believe in a God, if it were not for the cross. The only God I believe in is the One Nietzsche ridiculed as 'God on the cross.' In a real world of pain, how could one worship a God who was immune to it? I have entered many Buddhist temples in different Asian countries and stood respectfully before the statue of the Buddha, his legs crossed, arms folded, eyes closed, the ghost of a smile playing round his mouth, a remote look on his face, detached from the agonies of the world. But each time after a while I have had to turn away. And in imagination I have turned instead to that lonely, twisted, tortured figure on the cross, nails through hands and feet, back lacerated, limbs wrenched, brow bleeding from thorn pricks, mouth dry and intolerably thirsty, plunged in God-forsaken darkness.
That is the God for me! He laid aside his immunity to pain. He entered into our world of flesh and blood, tears and death. He suffered for us. Our suffering became more manageable in light of his. There is still a question mark against human suffering, but over it we boldly stamp another mark, the cross which symbolizes divine suffering. 'The cross of Christ...is God's only self-justification in a world such as ours.'"
- John Stott, from THE CROSS OF CHRIST
sorry must have said something wrong. didnt mean to say she couldnt believe what she wanted, was just disagreeing with it. i just find it funny how so many people damn people to hell for not conforming to them yet at the same time believing theyre the right type of person.
The late stand up comic Bill Hicks asked why Christians all wear crosses. When Jesus returns, he said, the last thing He will want to see is a cross. Bill said that is like getting a pendant of a sniper rifle to honour JFK.....
As for God being ugly....the Tibetan book of the Dead describes the deities you meet when you pass on as being frightening, horrific, almost unbearable terrifying. This is why they recite the text to the dying person on their deathbed, to prepare them for this encounter.
well, i'm a christian. though we have some disagreement on what hell actually is or how long it lasts, i DO believe in the christian heaven. does that mean that I'M damning anyone? nope.
you may not be, but she is.
there it is, if you disagree or am atheist/agnostic you go to hell. such lovely people. im not accusing you of being like this. but many, many christians are
There's nothing in the bible on non-christians going to hell. (This is simple fact because christianity didn't exist when jesus did, and there's nothing in the bible on hell or heaven, but if you want to go deeper than that...) remember jesus always had doomsday in his head, not when individuals died but the end of days/armageddon/apocalypse (whatever you wanna call it), he was talking about when ALL SOULS were judged..Also this is back in the day when your entire village, if not region, if not country, were the same religion..So everyone you knew and loved were your religion, others were either foreign invaders or had such strange ways compared to you that many people saw them as a different species, demons even.
So it's not a big jump for people back then to believe that people of another religion would go to a horrible place after death whereas you were rewarded for being 'civilised'. Nowadays we know that our next door neighbour is the same species as us, and that people of other religions are not demons, and we also love those who are not of our faith, this all adds up hopefully to make us see that we are a diverse society whose sinfulness/holiness do not depend upon our religion, they depend upon our personal actions.
Otherwise, it's a circle.. gets back to the horrible old lutheran and calvinist days.. If you believe that only christians go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell then you must also believe that those born into families which have never even heard of christianity are BORN with their fate determined (predestination), g-d chose those people to be sinful because most christians believe g-d controls everything. (So of course the next assertion- because you are born christian you will go to heaven regardless of what you do in life- seemed natural. ugh.) I would like to think noone believes that now, but I'm a dreamer. A hellbound dreamer
I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else for that matter kc, I'm just kinda trying to get people to empathise.. People like natureistruebeauty87 STILL haven't reconciled themselves to the fact that we are all people, we have the same hopes/fears/dreams/humanity, we may have different belief and thought systems but just because we're different, doesn't mean we're wrong. Studying history makes you really empathise with people.. I recommend it :H
Just a couple more things..
Firstly, my vehicle is sitting in a garage till it becomes a car. It isn't allowed to come out until it is, and I will have to get back to you on the results. Prediction: you were right. But I have to try
Secondly, of course jesus would be disgusted with the modern church. Jesus was trying to keep people allied to judaism!! What do they do, they create a new religion around him!! Jesus would be too distraught to comment on the state of the world today.. It's like if I was an animal rights campaigner my entire life and raised millions of dollars for the cause, then when I am killed in a freak pogo stick accident everyone turns round and says "I've had quite enough of this, let's erect a statue in her honour, go shoot some bengal tigers and make some rugs, put them in front and wear pogo sticks around our necks. To honour her." Think about it guys. Really. What do you think he was doing, as a jew preaching JEWISH texts and trying to be the messiah according to the JEWISH texts, or just creating identical ideas off the top of his head and telling people to support a religion formed after his death? The poor guy, totally deluded, can see into the future, and the only original ideas he comes up with strangely mirror the religion he left's texts word for word.
lol. That's a great idea. People are silly.
What exactly are you asking? I thought he was trying to tell people that God is part of their lives. Maybe the message originated with the Jews, but it is for every one of God's creatures (that God causes to be exposed to it).
disarm, you didn't really even read what i said at all, did you?
i said, i believe in heaven and hell. does that mean i'm damning anyone? no. do i think some people will be judged negatively? sure. does that mean i'm the one 'damning' them? no. i've grown up in very multicultural communities, i know darned well that my neighbors are "the same species." do try not to talk down to me next time.
I read your post very well. I wasn't talking about it, I was talking in reference to it.
I'm not trying to attack you or anyone else..does this sound like I'm talking about you? Considering I'm talking about the viewpoint natureistruebeauty87 has? Maybe you shouldn't be so self centred.
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