Is being nice to everyone a bad thing? when it comes to the opposite sex?

I'm guessing you didn't notice the subtle way she stroked the straw in her drink for that brief half a second when she looked your way from afar?

 

The direct approach isn't always socially accepted. Also, a lot of guys like to feel like they made the first move. I don't know why it matters, but I don't get to make the rules.

It usually doesn't matter if the men recognize the hints or not. A girl takes an indirect route to the bathroom, passes by your table, and makes eye contact. You don't know if she did it on purpose or not. Either way, you have noticed her. She didn't look away, or give you a look of disdain, so she apparently doesn't hate you. The next move is yours.

Or maybe she and her girlfriend change barstools, moving much closer to you. You hear them say, "These stools are much better." "Yeah, not as cold, away from that air vent." Did they really move to get better barstools, or to get closer to you? Either way, she is now close enough for you to say hello. If you're interested, you know what to do next.

Little girls start learning the rules at an early age. You won't see many of them asking a little boy, "Do you like me?" Instead, they send a friend over to ask, "Do you like her? She likes you, but she told me not to tell you." No, she was told to say it.

 

and a lot of guys would prefer that they didn't have to make the first move. so apparently the type of guys that do like to make the first move are somehow more desirable since women completely base their way of flirting around picking up that particular group of guys.

walking past someone or glancing in their direction is not a first move by any means. the "next move" isn't the guy's; the only move is his.

it would take a complete megalomaniac to assume that two women changing barstools and giving an explicit reason for doing so are actually doing it secretly because you're supposed to be hitting on one of them.

that's still directly putting the situation out there, even if doing so through a proxy. completely different from looking at the little boy for a second and then assuming that he will understand that he's supposed to come over and ask her out.

 

I tell girls all the time. If you see something you want the GO AFTER IT. You'd be surprised how many girls I've heard say, we had such a good conversation I thought he was going to ask me out or ask for my number and instead he just walked away. And I say, why didn't you ask him then? It's no wonder you don't get any dates. Everyone wants to sit around and wait for the world to come to them, instead life just passes them by.

It 100% matters if the girl ever wants him to get in the game. If the guy can't recognize the signal given by the girl to start the race, then guess what? He stays stuck at the starting line while the other guy wins with no challenge at all.

Lol. These scenarios make me laugh. The bathroom scenario is a tough one because depending on the situation, it likely forces the guy to make a very bold/direct move if he wants to act on that situation. If I put myself in that situation, the girl would have to be quite agressive with her eye contact (enough to make it quite clear what her intentions are) to warrant me going out of my way to engage her.

The 2nd scenario I would find funny and start talking to them just because of that. But that also reminds me of a time I was in an internet cafe. There were only a couple of us in the whole cafe and I actually wanted to have my own space that day. So I purposely sat away from everyone. Then, this girl comes and out of all the empty seats in the place, she elects to sit right the fuck beside me! That may of been her way of hinting, but it actually pissed me off. So instead of engaging her, I left :2thumbsup:

I've seen grown women do that in bars before. Never ceases to amaze me.

 

You don't get to make the rules, and neither do I. When you're dealing with random strangers in public, you have to make a few assumptions about their expectations, until a conversation starts and you get to know something about what they are like.

And you know, women are terrible about calling each other whores for being too open and honest in their flirting. We have to deal with that.

This thread seems to be getting more and more specific, like everybody always meets everybody else at a nightclub or bar. That isn't true, and social expectations and tolerances can be very different in other settings. The phone number on the back of the restaurant check leaves very little to the imagination about the girl's intentions, and college parties can get outrageously hedonistic. Then there are strip clubs, legal brothels, swingers clubs, etc. where nothing we've been talking about applies at all. Everybody can go to those places and pretty much say whatever they think, to anybody.

Wake up! Everything in a bar or club situation is a petty competition, including getting noticed, and everything tends to mean something if somebody has gone to a place for the specific reason of meeting someone of the opposite sex. The first eye contact is important. If the facial reaction is clearly positive or negative, that's a form of communication, and it isn't accidental. If there is no clear reaction, then it means nothing. If she laughs, rolls her eyes, or makes a face like, "You're not in my league", you had best not go over there.

I don't know how you can be 29 and not know that.

Or somebody who has no awareness of the games women play.

In that situation, you don't have to assume a damn thing. She put her fucking ass on a stool right beside of yours. If you want to speak, you speak. If you don't want to, then you don't. What else is there to understand?

That tells them more about you than it does about the world. Personally, I like that approach. I use it, when I can.

You think European girls do this? I didn't expect to hear that.

That sounds sensible, but it isn't really true. I've been with plenty of guys who thought they made the first move, but I set it up. You don't give girls enough credit. A lot of us are better at this stuff than you think.

My husband doesn't get this stuff either. He has no clue. Sometimes we'll sit in a corner of a bar, and I tell him what's going on in the room. The conversation might be something like this:

"You see that blond girl in the backless black dress? The guy in the dark gray shirt wants to ask her to dance, and she wants him to, but he isn't ready to do it."

"How do you know all that?"

"Facial expressions and body language. Right now, his buddy is telling him to go for it, and her friend just told her to sit up straight, because slouching makes her look fat."

"It does make a difference", he admits after she follows the advice.

Then the guy goes over to her, and they go to the dance floor.

I don't know why so many guys are bad at figuring this stuff out. It usually seems obvious to me.

So what? She was interested, and you weren't. She wasn't your type. It happens. Life goes on.

You might also laugh at the opposite extreme.

One time, I was on a spring break beach trip with two other college girls. We were all drunk and stoned one night, and our 'leader' went out on the balcony and said to some strangers down below, "Hey guys, you want to come up here and fuck me?" She totally scared the shit out of them! :rofl: They disappeared fast. She did it as a joke, but if they had come up there, would she have followed through? Probably. Later that night... well, we got with some guys who weren't intimidated, on the beach.

Then there was the frat house that took the door off their bathroom and threw it away. After drinking a lot of beer, you eventually had to put on a show for everybody, unless you were willing to go outside and piss in the snow. We didn't play any goddamn shy games in that house.
:reddevil:

 

I am terrible at recognizing hints. It isn't just about these subtle communication tactics, it is also about mixed expression of thought. Those are to keep someone of partial interest at arms length for the convenience of having an option at times where #1, or #2 isn't available.

 

ok, you have to make some assumptions when dealing with strangers. but if you assume that guys don't want you to approach them, you are forfeiting the opportunity to deal with half the guys out there.

phone number on the back of the restaurant check? i've never heard of that actually happening in real life.

is that the specific reason people go to bars? i always thought it was to get drunk outside of the house.

i don't know how you're supposed to figure it out.

yeah, it's just too bad that awareness of these games is basically the only thing that determines if a guy ever has a chance with the opposite sex. seems like a pretty ridiculous criterion to base all relationships on.

so you do acknowledge that a lot of guys just don't get it. why not have a system where both sexes have some clue what the hell is going on?

 

I'm fairly jaded, but that one shocked me. I've seen it only once.

In general, my husband gets hit on a lot more when he wears a wedding ring.

As soon as somebody makes me God, I'll put that project near the top of my priority list, right below world peace and hunger.

You think I have a lot of assumptions about what guys know without being told? You haven't heard anything. I've been in more than my share of all-female conversations where they were agreeing that something was common knowledge to all people, and I would just have to say, "I've never heard that before in my life. You're crazy! No guy is going to know that, unless you explain it to him."

I'm off the market anyway, so I'm just watching all this unfold.

 

No, I find Euro girls (in general) to be much more willing to approach guys than their American cousins across the pond.

Oh, I understand that. But I’m talking about the guy the girl wants to initiate, she’s sending him the signals, but he doesn’t get it and she goes home with nothing at the end of the night. It’s different when the girl pitches him the ball underhand right down the middle of the plate and all he has to do is swing. But when the girl is standing on the baseline giving out signals the guy doesn’t comprehend, he never swings and never hits anything.

Was just saying how the switching seats game can backfire on a girl

Also, the girl leaves it to risk that the guy will actually pickup that her sitting next to him is her initiating that she's interested in him. While I may pick it up, a lot of people may not. So the girl stupidly waste or loses the opportunity for nothing more than being aloof.

It's like "why didn't he notice me when I re-crossed my legs under the table from the other side of the room?" Really!?

I'm not afraid to go after what I want. If everyone was like that things would be a lot easier.

 

Hmmm... I think thats a fairly shallow way to view human communications, perhaps its fairly accurate in regards to the bar scene tho.

Basically that suggests that if you have blunted affect or are naturally shy initially, or have difficultly accessing facial expressions you are basically screwed (I realize the irony in my choice word) in the dating game...

 

Yes, being nice to *everyone* is a moronically bad thing.
Do u want the word "mug" tattooed on your forehead?

Its ok for people to *think* u are nice.But the reality is that if u are nice to everyone, some of them with think u are an idiot.
So.. just be nice to the people it makes sense to be nice to.
Because some people are just dogshit.

 

It's totally undependable as well. I'm the type of person who can make and hold eye contact should I want to, with anyone. The way I do it, should a person notice, they keep eye contact as well.

Does this mean they want me to come accost them for sex?

I have to fucking assume no.

 

Male approaches, tries to tackle insecurities, leads, performs, and presents vibe & conversation. Male asks for number, date, risks rejection at any point in hopes of romantic reciprocation.



Female sends a subtle signal.


Is this making sense yet?

 

https://www.youtube.com/embed/9ZcfZ9n6V6c?

If they are in a city of 1,000,000 or more, they will probably never see each other again. If it's closer to 200,000 people, they will most likely get a few more chances to get it right.

That reminds me of a really stupid story:

"Do you think [name withheld] might be gay?"

I responded, "I don't think so. Why do you ask?"

"I was sitting straight across from him last night at [popular location]. I was wearing a short dress without panties, and didn't cross my legs. He barely even looked at me!"

"It's so dark in there, there's no way in hell he saw anything."

So, I guess straight guys are now also responsible for being able to see perfectly in complete darkness. Good luck with that.

Shallow places, where shallow things happen; usually too loud for a good conversation. Completely opposite in every way from the lobby of a community theater, or an art museum.

I used to like bookstores. Go to your favorite sections, and you'll only meet people who definitely have at least one interest in common with you. You can buy somebody a cup of coffee and have a real conversation that doesn't involve shouting or nocturnal vision.

It could be worse. You could have been born a male in the black widow spider species. They always get murdered immediately after sex.

 

Wouldn’t you want to make sure you took advantage of the opportunity? Would you be willing to risk the possible man of your dreams walking out on you simply because you weren’t willing to be aggressive or obvious enough with your "hints"?

Lol, ironically that’s a perfect example . I’ve even had a girl ask me if I was gay when I wouldn't have sex with her. What gets me is the mentality some of these girls have, that there’s no way any straight guy could possibly resist (or not be interested in) them. Amazing.

 

^ it's also possible the guy knew but didn't wanna look like a fudging perv so he made sure not to glare. I don't know where girls get this idea that men are actively trying to get sex everyday. We may think it... but c'mon, we're taught manners and we have limitations and boundries, bro.

To KJ, though I like your positivity, and willingness to share. lol.

I wanna dispell one last thing.

NO! I don't know where girls get this nonsense from.

Big-ego PICK UP ARTISTS may actually enjoy the chase, but that's all you're attracting then. Meet a man halfway if you like him. He'll appreciate it much.

Oh and perverts. They probably get off on it too.

 

You make it sound so simple and easy.

Don't worry, I've done okay.

You also make it sound like there's a huge number of guys out there that are so shy, they can't even say 'hello' first. I find that hard to believe. That hasn't been my experience at all.

If the guy says so much as one word and the girl has some degree of interest and isn't a bitch, she's not going to make the conversation any harder than it has to be.

She's a fucking spoiled brat. Her daddy created a monster. You didn't miss anything.

Not in this case. Trust me, it was too dark in that place. She was just being stupid.

:cheers2:

From their parents, female peers, teachers, TV, etc.

That's why it's important for those of us with differing views to share them. A friend of mine in college used to tell people it's a women's liberation issue; we don't have to be stuck playing the same social games our mothers played. And we didn't. We more or less declared war on the old ways of doing things, and got away with it for a while. Those were good times.

 

Dude, you said you weren't going to complain about it. Forget vibe, just machine-approach. If you try to be all smooth and shit, you're just going to put the onus on yourself for something that is entirely not your fault.

 

so what happened to that? why go back?

 

We couldn't stay in college forever, and I never found another social group like that one.