is being gay a matter of right or wrong; natural or unnatural

And thats another classic, people are born gay? People are born with a sexuality? That would mean 6 month old babies have a sexuality??? even if you consider they do it isnt remotely anything like the sexuality of an adult.

Or straight people are born straight? Your sexuality is determined at birth???

Just cos we want you all to believe that stuff doesnt make it true, just cos when you ask us if we think we are born gay and we say yes, doesnt mean we believe it.

And most importantly, whoever believes what doesnt change who/how many are gay.

Its all just a simple math problem and its all staring you right in the face the whole time

 

Well I'm sorry if I offended you. But yes, I believe your born gay or straight.

So if I asked you to be straight, you think you could change your mind and be straight?

I completely do not agree with that, there has even been studies that kids have come out to there parents younger then 11. That's before most people are even sexually active with other people.

I go to a beauty school. Full of gay guys, one of my close friends from school had pictures of him when he was 5 as the pink power ranger...

 

Something about your personality is determined at birth is the suggestion. Gay sex is in compliance with some people's very nature.

 

You didnt offend me. I just used your post to try and point people in the right direction. This is an internet message board, so I can be a bit free-er. If it was real life I'd just go with the yes we are born gay thing.

With the born gay thing, you are working on a few assumptions:

A) That there arent people that know where gay comes from
B) When a gay person says that, they dont have an alterior motive in mind. We want you all to think that so you dont go and try reprogramme that shit if you detect it in little kids, when you have kids. The elder churchies want you to think that so you dont work out where gay comes from before you breed

Think to yourself also why you just think in terms of gay / straight, as if there is nothing in between. Either Bi doesnt exist, or it does and you think it doesnt cos you never really see any evidence of it. How do you know there arent more bi people than straight people? Because they'd go around telling everyone if they were? Does every Gay Guy or Girl go around telling everyone they are gay, so there may be more gay people out there than you realise

Think about what you are actually asking there, could I change my mind?. The number of images of mens pee pees and abs that pop into my head during the day, in my dreams while I'm asleep is not up to me. Just as it is not up to you. When you yourself encounter a big manly man in your everyday life, its not even your mind that reacts, its your body, blood starts to flow, shortness of breath. Can you change your mind, change your body?

The operative word being "most". And this is the part that perplexes us. Its literally right in front of your face the whole time. How do you think they get trained off the opposite sex? Who do you think they learn off to attract the same sex? You think becuase you are a girl, that every other girl is like you, that they all hit puberty / started to develop at the same age. You think cos you didnt really do anything sexual, any sexual happened to you with kids your age when you were little, that thats the same for everyone.

Gay, the proper thing that is, the ones that know when they are like 5, thats about 2% of the population. Around 2% of the female population is already starting in the early stages of puberty at 6. Those two figures cant have anything in common right?

And its the opposite of what it looks like, identify as a girl so SOME of the other girls will think of him as one of the sisterhood and not touch him in his swimsuit area.




Sorry, if that all sounds animated, just trying to shake you and wake you up, especially the girls, get you to think outside the box. Everyone has been lying to you, including and especially us, if you ask us one of the dumb questions we aint going to give you the truthful answer, sometimes we have an alterior motive in mind.

Sometimes the real answer is too mean: like saying the hottest girls have the best gaydar, cos every non gay gay looks at her like he's about to cream his pants.

Forget about us, you dont really have to give a shit, but there is some very important information if you want to work out the opposite sex quicker, especially when they are around us.

You dont have to take any of my word for it, just think!

 

just want to say i drove a cab for 6 yrs 4 in Reno and 2 in Denver and gays are the party ingest MFrs on the planet--my onle fares frome about 330am till around 7 am were gay going to the next party and gaydar is bulshit all those fools thought i was gay cas i wore leather and thats a gay subculture plus they tipped like mad--so i liked them cas they gave me money but always had to warn them quit touching me man or ill have to beat your ass--then youll know for sure im not gay---they were polite always and wuld say shit like thats the first time my gaydar failed me-----man i wish i was gay i would have lived a rich life of sex drugs and fun and money but smelling shit coming from a passenger was just a total turnoff and i had to walkinto mgay bars to pick up passengers and having the whole place satre at me i felt like what a hot chick must feel--i didnt like it----and young boys in diapers sucking on lolipops didnt do it for me either-----but liveand let live is my motto just quit touching me----hahahhahahhh

 

All the science points to the fact people's sexuality is determined at birth, nobody chooses who they find attractive.

 

I would disagree, I would say environment and free will have all to do with someones sexuality, to say that sexuality is determined at birth is nonsense.

First off I would doubt a newborn infant was even aware of it's own sex let alone which sex it found most pleasing.

 

I honestly think that there is no right or wrong answer to this...

Some people think it's science, some people think it's life experience...

 

I believe an individual is to define what is natural, and what is right to them. If that's the only way they feel comfortable with their life then it couldn't be MORE natural (to them).
I don't exactly recommend it, and I think that with enough effort, homosexuals can find interest in the opposite sex but Its ultimately upto them. It definitely has to do with their childhood and how they were raised. I am NOT a believer of people being BORN gay, or straight. I think people grow into their sexuality. When babies are born they dont have a PICTURE of with who and how they want to spend the rest of their life, their preference comes with experience, how does it not?

 

It's about genes, chromosomes and DNA.It's not about reaching a certain age and deciding "OK,I've thought this sex thing over and I think I'll be gay".Determinants and propensities are not necessarily things we can decide.

 

Its about people being manipulated by situations and other things in life that cannot be changed, people brought up in certain situations in childhood, emotions, etc..

When a baby is BORN their sexual preference is unknown. Its the experiences throughout growing up that the individual goes through.

 

So I take it that in your opinion gays can decide to be straight and straights can decide to be gay?It's just a personal decision?

 

I punched up--gay genes and wickipedia came up with some interesting data taken from various scientific studies.It appears possible we both are correct in certain ways.Check it out.Politically a hot potato,but scientifically studied quite a bit.

 

On the basis of the studies I've read, we just don't know what causes people to be gay. There are a number of studies, including studies on twins, showing genetic influences. There is also a psychoanalytical literature by "Reparative Therapists" in religious circles outside the mainstream indicating influences from family upbringing during early childhood and the "exotic is erotic" phenomenon in which kids alienated from typical same sex behaviors develop attractions to kids of the same sex who have them. It's interesting that neither position supports the idea that sexual orientation itself is a "choice" or decision, although arguments have been made that homosexuals can still choose to abstain from sex or even to have sex with non-preferred partners. Reparative Therapists assume that through years of psychotherapy some patients can change or diminish their homosexual orientation. Mainstream mental health professionals are dubious about the success rates of such therapy, and think the risks of doing psychological damage to the patient are considerable. Since the issue is so politicized, I don't think it will ever be settled until it's no longer controversial. I suspect that a theory in touch with complete reality would put the genetic model and the psychoanalytical model together.

Whose purpose? Evolutionists believe sexual reproduction developed because of advantages in the competition for survival. Quite obviously if all or a majority of a species didn't reproduce it would die out. That doesn't seem to be a particular problem for the human race at the moment, although the fact that certain components of the population are reproducing at faster rates than others could present problems for the ruling elite.

The fact that it seems to exist among most mammals and some non-mammalian species suggests to me that it might be a normal variant, like left-handedness.

I think that's unlikely to happen. Heterosexuality is a big draw for a majority of the species, and is unlikely to be going out of style in the near future. If there were no religious or moral taboos against it, would you be inclined to have sex with a person of your own gender?

If that 's the case, why is it found in so many other mammalian species? "Meant" by whom?

Do you feel the same way about celibate priests and nuns, or married couples who choose not to have sex? Your whole line of reasoning implies that "Doin' what comes naturally" is morally healthy and desirable. Ethical naturalism, most commonly encountered in the philosophy called "natural law", teaches that we must conform to the purpose of a Higher Law found in Nature. It has Greco-Roman origins, and entered Christianity through Saint Paul, Saint Augustine and other early Christian leaders. In Greco-Roman form, Nature was conceptualized pantheisically. Nature has a purpose and we can figure out what it is by contemplating it. In Christian form, nature is another way besides scripture in which we can figure out what God expects of us. However, I think caution is in order. If we contemplate nature, we might get the idea we should be completely promiscuous, since that seems to be rampant in the animal kingdom, and certainly a strong tendency in humans. I think that our ability to reason and choose was a major step forward, and gives us the ability to plan our lives in a way that is satisfying to us, not just Mother Nature.

I'm basically a J.S. Mill style utilitarian in believing that good is what promotes the greatest happiness for the greatest number of people, and that if a practice can't be shown to harm anybody, and is satisfying to the people doing it, there's nothing wrong with it. If we really were in danger of extinction from lack of reproduction because everybody was going gay, I'd consider that a harm. But I think it's extremely unlikely that will happen. The other main consideration is STDs. Promiscuity of any kind is risky, safer sex is imperative, AIDs happens to be more prevalent among (but not limited to) homosexuals, and there are particular dangers where anal sex is involved. Those are messages that should be taught in our schools and preached from our pulpits. Monagamy is something to be valued. I also think deontological ethics should be considered. We shouldn't treat humans merely as sex objects. Apart from that, Mother Nature can go fuck herself.

 

I dont think the individual has the power to decide exactly. Some situations and experiences that might not be in the persons control kind of corner the individual into seeing no other way. Thats my thoughts on the subject.

 

Reasonable posts ,both of you.It's interesting to think that human females are the only species that possess a clitoris.Something to think about.

 

If I think about that too much, I'll have to take a cold shower!

 

hahahaha--know what you mean!Lucky women and lucky us.