Iraqi Shias burn US flags

burning a flag is so cliche anymore.

 

I think the majority of the people burning american flags were burning them way before 2003 - it is just good pictures to show on TV.

‘Down with Bush, Down with America’

why not:

'End the violence on ALL sides'

‘In four years of occupation, our sons have been killed and women made widows,’ cried Ahmed Al Mayahie, 39, a Shia from the southern city of Basra.

By whom i ask

‘The occupier raised slogans saying Iraq is free, Iraq is liberated. What freedom? What liberation? There is nothing but destruction. We do not want their liberation and their presence. We tell them to get out of our land.’

Their is freedom or these people would not be holding this demo - plus why not tell all those that are killing each other to stop the violence and to get out of your land.

Oh no lets not put any blame on anybody but those americans -

The solution is very very very easy imho.

 

If it's that easy, perhaps you should go to Baghdad and give them this sacred information........you could be a hero! Singlehandedly ending a brutal slaughterhouse.

 

the data might be old, but back in the day i heard that the vast majority of civilian casualties are caused by coaltition (read: american) forces, usually at the numerous checkpoints. this might be outdated, because they have since put up stop signs at the checkpoints.
the us newsmedia pretty much only reports the terrorist bombings, it's more interesting footage afterall, and ignore the more mundane causes of death...

 

Never understood the rationale of suicide bombing your own fellow civilians.

Even if they are a diferent religous sect or diff tribe.

Could not imaginge belt-bombing a mosque with people inside worshiping.

They must value human life diferently there.

 

This march was organised by Moqtada Sadr, who leads one of the most murderous and repressive militias in Iraq.

 

:lol:

 

It was the invasion and removal of the Hussein regime that destabilized the country, however it was Moqtada al-Sadr that formed the Mahdi Army. al-Sadr and the Mahdi Army have been assisted with training, weapons, and funding from Iran through the Quds Force. al-Sadr and the Mahdi Army are responsible for many coalition deaths and even more civilian deaths and the fueling of sectarian violence through its vigilante justice. Just your typical Islamic extremist acts including torture, beheadings, etc.... Mahdi of course as in Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi, who has been alive for the past 1200 years and will battle the anti-Christ alongside Jesus (when he returns) in the last of days. Though some see al-Sadr as a freedom fighter and the Mahdi Army as simply a security force which provides protection from the evil occupiers.

 

Tens of thousands, millions, billions, who counts right?

 

That doesn't mean that other people aren't making it worse...

Usually it's because one of "them" killed on of "us".
The shia and sunni is no different than the crips and bloods.
Sure, they use politics and religion to justify their actions, but all it really is is a bunch of people trying to get personal revenge...
"one of ours dies, so we have to kill one of theirs."
and on and on for thousands of years.

 

All it would take is for me to say 'stop killing each other and talk'

Not many people would be listening to me though - they WANT to find excuses to kill each other - The US ''occupation'' s just one excuse - of many.

I agree with Higherthanhell that we destabalised the country - but the majority of people destabalised - managed to gain stability with out killing each other - they are now being destabalised by internal politics and violence acted out by internal groups and a few external groups wishing to use Iraq to launch their ongoing attack on 'western values'. The US did not provoke nutters to plant bombs to kill each other -

If they want a stable Iraq then maybe stopping the violence might just help - crazy as that might sound - so yeah it IS very very easy - but it only takes the minority to fuck it up for the majority. The minority it seems do not wish to listen to reason.

Listening to each other and a ceasefire is all it took in Ireland.

 

The violence won't stop until the PSAs are signed. Burning our flag...so what?

 

I'm not quite sure about these PSAs - i see you mention them quite often - i imagine they have something to do with OIL? - could you post some info for a simpleton like me to read through - thanks.

If that is what you are talking about then why would secterian violence STOP when these oil contracts are signed - surely it goes deeper than that ?. The Iraqi goverment and oil industries will STILL be working with western companys and goverments - plus to my knowledge Iraq has control over who and when it sells its own oil - maybe a little more insight into what these PSAs are - might enlighten me a little - so i will not rush to judge just yet.

I imagine so - i know a period of instability is likely when a regime is ousted - all i say is how the majority cope with that instability . Does it give them licence to go and kill each other ? . For the most part i think it is only fringe elements that resort to violence - if that was to cease then the majority could work out their differences - peacefully.

Criticism will occur whatever any goverment does - especially the US goverment. Appeasing Saddam got them flack then ousting him got them even more. Whatever happens innocent people will be caught in the crossfire - it is a very very sad fact of all the politics that goes on in the world - people end up dying.

No - i agree Saddams regime was not the ideal form of stability. It is catch 22 - Oust the dictator then cope with the aftermath - or - leave the dictator and be accused of not dealing with the situation. Imho it was Saddams time to be removed - he brought it upon himself - though all of that is another thread.

It is very idealistic of me and even more naive of me to think this situation could be dealt with as easy as i suggest. Imho though - that is all it takes .

Maybe it was the duration - but imho it came down to a ceasefire and listening. 30 - 40 - 60 [depending on when you imagine either side gave the other side the time of day] - years of neither side listening and killing each other.

Imho yeah post 9/11 funding may have dropped but i also think the IRA did not want to be seen as a terrorist organistaion - they could have recieved funding for a very vey long time. It just became obvious that tactic was not going to get them any further given the political and social scene since 9/11.

The 'people' won

"They have said we want peace and power-sharing and the political leadership has then come in behind that and said we will deliver what people want."

http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page11343.asp

Imho the majorityof people in Iraq - want peace and power sharing and no more violence- TIME imho will just create further divisions and further excuses on all sides.

 

Perhaps some of those Northern Irish can go to Iraq as a living example
of peoples striving to get along despite a legacy of violence and division.

I didn't see The Queen or The Prince of Wales expending any political capital to bring Orange and Green together these past 25 years, yet we can hope for peace for the poor residents of Ulster.


.

 

Definitely coalition forces and outside western intervention are making things worse.

Didn't our boys(coalition forces) go over to avenge 09/11 and wipe our WMD? How are they better than Crypts and Bloods?

 

Perhps this will help you understand.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/2005/crudedesigns.htm#rethinking

 

PSA is an attempt to keep the war for oil argument alive. Since we were supposed to be there to steal the oil, but we apparently forgot to steal it, the new theory is that PSAs are a conspiracy to steal Iraq's oil. Of course there are no PSAs either, which is a bit of a problem, but essentially if there is ever any investment in Iraq's oil industry at any point in Iraq's future, that proves everything was a conspiracy. (Please disregard foreign investment in Iraq's oil industry by Saddam's pals who also helped block UN action against him).

Meanwhile, the reason Sudanese suicide bombers blow up Shiite vegetable markets is because the net present value of projected oil revenues could potentially be lower under a PSA, assuming (unrealistically) no windfall taxes. Or something like that.

 

I am not speaking of the Sudan at this point but I am trying to awake awareness as to why we continue to risk lives and pour American dollars into the Iraqi conflict. Who exactly were Saddam's pals?