Indyref 2: Scotland Goes To The Polls Again

About time!

Could be a long thread, we're looking at sometime between Autumn 2018 and Spring 2019 at the last, before Brexit is finally put in motion. Not soon enough for me.

As far as I am concerned I want Scotland to just declare itself indepedent. Unilateral Declaration of Independence. We can do that if we want to, and the only reason Sturgeon isn't is because (perhaps rightly) she wants to play it safe. She would risk creating civil unrest if she just declared it, regardless of whether it's the right thing to do for Scotland or not. When Scotland goes independent there will be parties, but the bulldogs will also be out waving their union jack flags and causing trouble like they were last time, even though they won the vote.

Sturgeon is seeking permission from Scarecrow, who has already indicated that she wont allow it. But she can't stop us holding a referendum. Maybe she has the power to block the outcome should Scotland vote Yes, but then she'd find herself in a very dificult position and likely then to yield to the popular choice, which I'm certain was a lot higher in 2014 than we were told, and will be again.

In 1997 Scotland voted 3 to 1 in favour of devolution, and that was under a New Labour government, before Tony Blair and Gordon Brown really started to fuck up. How can it be then, in 2014 Scotland voted against 54% to 45%, during possibly one of the worst tory administrations in history, marginally worse than the Thatcher years? Doesn't really make sense to me.

Of course, there was a higher turn in the 2014 referendum, and I was allowed a vote while I was living in Manchester. There is also The Vow, also known as The Lie, and the scaremongering of pensioners into making them fear they would lose their pensions.

The postal votes of 2014 were also interesting. They were swayed very heavily towards No and were statistically anomalous in so far as the turn out was concerned. There is never a 100% turn out in these things, they always take into account factors like people moving, and dying etc in calculating figures so 90% or something is considered a full turn out. In the postal votes nearly all constinuencies had either a near full turn out or greater than. I can't remember the exact figures, I'll look out the article when i have the time and post it, but many have speculated that this might be one of the ways the authories helped to pull off a fraud. The postal votes were also sent down to England for some reason.

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Discussion about Brexit is also welcome here since it forms a big part of the current move of Scotland towards independence.

For the record I also voted for Brexit. I don't see the logic in turning over sovereign powers to a more centralised government.

I'd be more happy with Scotland independent from the UK, but still in the EU than the opposite scenario we are currently facing, since an independent country in the EU has more powers to decide it's own laws than one tied to the hegemonic rule of Westminster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJkzLLBp0rI

 

Be interesting to see how this works out.

I think that given May's prating on about 'the will of the people' over Brexit, it would be very difficult, if not impossible to deny the will of the Scottish people if they vote for it.

Personally, I'd like to see Westminster stripped of much of it's power. We could have devolution of the English regions too. De-centralize. Decide things locally. Go back to something like the old Anglo-Saxon kingdoms (no kings of course!)

No doubt the Westminster lot will be issuing dire warnings about voting for independence. Expect more propaganda and lies.

 

Hopefully those who were mongered into voting No will see through the bullshit this time. This time the Yes campaign will have "The Vow". What happened to "The Vow"? Nothing happened, it was all lies.

Sure, next day devo max is going to be right there on the table if you vote No. Of course, it's also going to be there if you vote Yes as well.

May is a hypocrite. When Gordon Brown assumed the role of prime minister without a single person casting a vote in his favour, she told him in front of everyone in the house of commons that he had "no remit" to be the PM. And there she goes and does the same thing.

What a terrible **** that woman really is.

 

Lettuce leaf

 

Let's make Scotland great again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DDq1QMuwZc

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4309414/EU-NATO-warn-Scotland-LOSE-membership.html Cant have it All ways !

So scotland want to be Independent so they can be Governed by Brussels ?

 

Fine with me. And the tories can take their nuclear submarines and shove them up their arses.

I'm pretty sure the vote in Scotland would have swayed in favour of leaving the EU had we been independent. Some people voted to remain because Nicola said we'd get another indyref.

Yes, the situation is all fucked up. It wouldn't be as fucked up if the tories and labour hadn't gone round fearmongering and spreading lies through the media in 2014.

I said this last time, and I'll say it again. If you want to be ruled by Westminster then go and live in London.

 

And maybe if you want to be ruled by Brussels go and live in Brussels???

 

Careful what you wish for - if May decided to call a snap election then accoding to polsters (ha ha who can believe them of late) she'd get a landslide and could basically do what she pleased as there would be no effective opposition....

 

You hit the nail.

May can call a snap election is she likes, I hope she does. Corbyn will win.

 

Really???

 

An honest man who speaks for the working class vs. T2?

Don't belive the fake news. If Labour fail to bag it then it will be because Scotlands votes were not included or the Blairites couldn't stop bitching.

 

I hate people who are in her position, who stutter!
(No disrespect to people who have the condition,)
I always feel, if they stutter, they are ill prepared!
I think she reminds me of Margaret Thatcher, don't like the woman!
I don't think you should trust her!
So how would Scotland being independent work exactly?
You would sever all ties with the UK? How could that be affordable?
What part of the UK debt would be handed to Scotland?
Sounded like she thinks she can put a wall up, you make your own laws etc.surely you have to take part of the UK with you?
I just don't like that lady!

 

The government in Westminster has robbed Scotland of it's resources and wealth, as far as I'm concerned we owe them nothing. Also, national debt is a global scam orchestrated by the world bank.

Scotland could sustain itself quite easily, don't be fooled by the media lies. Given the chance we could really boost our economy by allowing a legal and regulated cannabis market as well. Noone ever talks about the Scottish gin industry? Whisky, oil, tourism, steel?, agriculture, what else... does it really sound like Scotland is on it's arse because of a lack of industry or resources?

The argument isn't an economic one anyway, not for me, it's about Scotland deciding how it's own affairs are run, not dictated to by tory scum, the Eton boys club.

Maybe, if the government in Westminster was such a consistent bag of arses Scotland would be more happy to remain in the UK?

After the split Scotland and England can still trade, we can agree free movement of each citizen, we don't have to be enemies. I'll still like to visit England, some of the places I used to live. I love English people, but not all of course, I just hate tory bastards. The only difference is Scottish laws for Scotland, and English laws for England.

Remember Cameron's "English Votes for English Laws" speech the day (or so) after indy ref 2014? Just after he defaulted on his promise to grant Scotland Devo Max if we voted to remain? The bare faced cheek of these tory bastards makes my blood boil!

 

I agree with you totally on the Tories! The lazy gits only want what's good for them! I don't understand why people vote for them! Although my sister and her husband are Tories, and even they don't understand what's going on! Ha! Only because their out of work bitch of a daughter has been dumped by hubby, and he has left the country! (Let's get you what your entitled to dear! Erm what?!!) Lol whoops! Get them Tories out, and everything would work out better!

 

Hate to say it, but I think we're going to be stuck with the Tories for the foreseeable future. Corbyn has no chance. Unless Labour get rid of him and reform double quick, they will probably get annihilated at the next election, when ever it happens. The tabloids will ensure that.

If Scotland does leave the UK, we'll probably have the Tories forever in England, and there won't even be the EU to restrain them. You can kiss goodbye to things like worker's rights and environmental protection. NHS too - very likely they'll sell it off to American health care companies, and a large proportion of nurses will have gone back to Europe anyway.

 

Maybe you're right. But you can never really gauge public opinion until the day.

The media has been out to slay Corbyn from the minute he was elected as leader of the LP. All you hear on the news is about how Corbyn is unelectable. Nothing about how honest and fair he is. Before you know it all the sheep are baahing to the same tune. Corbyn's a good leader, but he'll never get elected because he's got a beard.

Just because lots of people say the same thing doesn't make it true. I personally think Corbyn will nail it. Why else do you think the tories are desperately trying to redraw the constinuency boundary lines in their favour?

 

I don't know about anywhere else in the UK, but in the NW, it's already started, and it's the Tories buddies getting first pickings!

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/virgin-running-nhs-clinics-skelmersdale-10954383

 

I hope you're right. Not because I particularly have a high opinion of JC, but because at least it would get rid of the tories. I'd rather live under a Labour mess than a Conservative mess. However, I have no faith or trust left in Labour.

As I said though, the tabloids will be doing all they can to rubbish Labour, and Corbyn in particular. I hope I am wrong and that for once at least, people will think before voting, rather than letting Murdoch or the Daily Mail think for them. I'm not at all optimistic though.

 

This is worth a watch if you're concerned about the future of the NHS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ultKvnw2h3Q&list=WL&index=6