I'm Sick Of This Middle-Class Bullcrap - This Isn't Freedom.

For the past 3 years or so, I have been working like a dog, expecting that eventually it will pay off. I have a shitty office job that I don't like, I managed to save up all the money I could and bought a condo, which I rent out. I then bought and old dilapidated house, which I currently live in and and trying to renovate on nights and weekends, all while I am working my stupid 9 to 5 office job.

Since I started taking these things on, I have had no money because it all goes into those "investments", no time because it all goes to working, not much of a social life because I am either sleeping or working, and have gone through about 5 girlfriends because I don't have time to commit to a relationship. I am always exhausted, have a herniated disk, a shitty diet, am impatient, and stressed out. I take pills to sleep when it gets to be too much, and weed and alcohol to numb myself out the rest of the time. I've stopped meditating, sports, psychedelic exploration, cooking, eating well, taking time, fishing, playing music, spending time on hip forums, all of it.

I the meantime, I have friends who work in guitar shops, make half my salary, but manage to have an active social life, travel once a year, have extra money to eat out here and there, have love lives, extra curricular activities, so on and so forth.

Who is truly free here? Who is truly better off? Not me in this instance... I realize I can't know wether this was all worth it until I start seeing the benefits of all the sacrifices and efforts I've put in, but if I look at RIGHT NOW, which is all that matters, I am losing big time. I am losing when I look at my friend who just became a father. I am losing when I see my friends go on a fishing trip without me. I am losing when I see people around me eating well, staying healthy, loving each other, going out, having laughs, playing music.... I bet this is how it happens. When you suddenly realize you are 70 years old and spent your whole life chasing the "American Dream", neglecting those you love and everything else that truly matters. Time flies man...

I don't even know what the point of this thread is. I guess I'm just a workaholic and needed to rant.

Sometimes I feel like declaring bankruptcy, losing all my assets and massive responsibilities, and just living off my salary in a shitty apartment and do whatever I want. That would be nice.

 

I've learned over time to live on less and not worry about chasing success because it's meaningless. It helps being single and not having children. The system is designed to keep people enslaved and running around a proverbial hamster wheel in a cage. That way people never have the time to question things and consider what's real in life.

The so-called "real world" is a rat race which I want no part of. I have learned not to get stressed out over meaningless shit -- not that I don't get stressed at times, but I try to not let it consume me. Things are going to collapse eventually anyway, it's just a matter of time.

Like George Carlin said, the American dream is called what it is because you need to be asleep to believe it.

I guess the important thing is to live within your means and not think you need all this stupid shit society tells you that you need to have to be happy.

 

It is best to live a life full of things you enjoy doing rather than live life in a miserable way. But if your sole purpose at the moment is simply to make money you will inevitably find yourself doing things you don't enjoy and spend your life miserably trying to obtain the money to enjoy your life. It's like catch 22. You just need to find a medium of the two. But it is true that the friends with nothing seem to live a comfortable life with what they have which seemingly is very little in comparison to ourselves. I like what you're doing with the property game though. Especially the condo idea, renting out property is where I go to where I am today.

 

There's this jimmy johns sign with a similar moral

 

I'm not a homeowner but I can definitely relate to being burned out on the 9 -5 grind (its really like 8 - 7 for me after factoring in the commute and my lunch hour).

I really want to uproot my family and get a job bartending on a beach somewhere. The only problem with this plan is all the upper middle class and wealthy folks have ruined the east coast beaches with overdevelopment and skyrocketing rents. Blurgh.

 

Go do your bar course and travel the world with it.

 

One problem with owning a home is that the neighborhood can change dramatically before you can build enough equity to sell it off. Jane, my wife, and I are stuck with 2 houses, one in NY and one in Atlanta. I figured that getting them both paid off as fast as possible would allow us to start saving more, which it has. But in both places our neighbors are moving out and since they can't sell their houses for what they think is fair (usually a fantasy based on stupid ideas of being on easy street) they have turned to renting them out. So each neighborhood is now filled with disconnected people who don't even try to be neighbors.

I've had to install security cameras so I can watch one house when we are at the other. On 3 occasions I have had to deal with rental "neighbors" trying to rip us off. They always deny it so I give them a thumb drive with the video of their little darlings breaking in and stealing stuff. Then I tell them that unless they pay me for the damage/theft, the video will be handled by a lawyer. One of them moved off in the night (but I found them pretty easily), the other two paid and have not been further trouble.

Real estate is a rigged game. If a deal looks too good to be true, like you're SO lucky you found this odd diamond in the rough, you can bet a realtor salted the mine. Do the research before buying. One of the houses on our street in Atlanta was infested with termites and had to be gutted, twice. I feel sorry for the fools who buy it without doing their homework.

But not all is doom and gloom. If you can do the work yourself, do it. You'll be happier. Sure you won't necessarily do a "professional" job. But you'll be far more willing to accept your own compromises as opposed to those taken by contractors (that you often find well after the check has been cashed). Save the big money for shit that really needs licensed professionals, like plumbing, roofing, electrical and HVAC.

Our plan was to liquidate the houses to pay for each kid's college. But the last housing bubble made that difficult. Imagine paying off a house then watching it lose half its value. Twice! Another housing bubble is right around the corner and things that seemed to recover will be in the toilet again. But if you pay the place off, amortize aggressively, you can weather the bubbles with ease. But, you're still stuck with your new "neighbors".

 

Woahhhh Catterpillar, your post blew my mind. Awesome, awesome read.

Everyone else, thank you so much for your perspective on this. It feels good to know that we're all dealing with the same stuff in one way or another. I think I got caught up in the idea of putting alot of effort now so I can have more time, money, and freedom later, when really I could have all that now if I wasn't so greedy. I need to take advice from that Mexican fisherman.

George, Thankfully I worked in renovation for a while, went to school in electricity/electronics, was a tile setter, a framer, and a whole bunch of other stuff before I started working in my office job. I am proud to say that when it comes to working my hands, my work looks pretty close to professional. I do however, like to rely on contractors for big drywall jobs because you know... f**k drywall lol. That being said, I think that in the end, I will be making some money on this house. I guess the issue is more about how much I am sacrificing in real human things that can't be calculated with money, like time and all that other stuff I named in my OP. My work/life balance is completely out of wack right now. Your situation sounds rough though. Do you feel it was a mistake to have two properties so far apart?

 

Sometimes the miscreants of HF who only smoke weed and talk drugs do actually have other shit to say and ideas, experiences lol.

 

Not at all, we like both places overall and spend time at each throughout the year. The distance sucks, but we are used to it now. In both houses I keep an office which is where I do most of my work. I only visit client sites when it's absolutely necessary. The rest of my time in either place I live and work like a hermit. Jane, my wife, is licensed for both states. The only pain is having to hire people to keep the lawns mowed so I don't run afoul of the code enforcers. In both places they are absolute pricks. In Atlanta I can be ticketed if 2 or more lawn tools are visible from the street. These kinds of regulations are clearly in place to extract extra cash.

Maybe I'll surprise them one year and just Roundup the whole freakin yard.

 

what middle class? 40 years ago, before raygun, there was a middle class. mom and pop retailing and unionized infrastructure made a middle class and that made capitalism come as close to working as it ever had.
seen any non-franchise retail outlets lately?
i'm sure someone can find one or two somewhere.
at least i hope so, but the fact you actually have to look for them any more in the u.s.
hopefully europe and gb still have a middle class of some kind.

 

[SIZE=11pt]On a more positive note the poor have been gaining in popularity [/SIZE]


[SIZE=11pt]Hotwater[/SIZE]

 

I'm not a big fan of real estate investing. It's been over-hyped for years.

I rented until I could afford a newer house that didn't need any repairs when I bought it. I often work long hours, but I don't hate my job, and I give myself multiple mental breaks during the day, including surfing this place.

Check out the town of Manteo, NC. You may figure out why Andy Griffith moved there after college and stayed for the rest of his life.

 

A busy life can be great, but only if you like the things that keep you busy. That is kind of simplified but how it is in general to me. I can relate terribly well to you and how you feel about your office job, Shivaya. I disliked the work and how it made me feel and have spend a lot of thought on it and am now so glad to not have worked at an office in years (except I tried callcenter work for awhile some time over a year ago).

Hey, lots of people do like it that way, and not every office job sucks beartits (it can depend if one is working part time or full time for instance, or it can depend on fun collegues a lot, etc. etc.). Some people have their investments and stuff planned out great and for them it is worth going at it like that.
For the people who realize it isn't for them I can only hope they have the opportunity to make a different choice. Yes, not everyone can make such a life change easily and it does depend a bit on luck. This is one of the great aspects of our society: we often do have that choice (especially if you're not drowning in debts). I don't have a retirement plan and I don't want one yet for years (and maybe never ). I want to live and experience life now, and the coming decades too Working is for enabling that. Not for starting with that a decade (or more! ) later.

 

The value of property doesnt compound regularly

Do you sums

Even when you hear stories about some guy that fixed up a house or brought a house, made 50,000 over 5 years......once you take away costs, mortgage interest, loan fees, stamp duty, capital gains tax if it applies, renovation costs

What may seem like a gain of 10% a year is really closer to zero

Then factor in that money you invested isnt compounding like it should if it where in a share or managed fund portfolio or super...and you are actually going backward

Put it all in property, and the value of those properties needs to go up closer to 25% a year in order to actually compete with other financial investments that compound regularly

That is, its not just quality of life, you will also end up with more money if you just rent a shack and stick the rest of your money in sharesbor super

For every guy you hear that made millions in property, there are 1000 that went bust you dont hear about

Sell the one you are renting, what are you really making on that? 2%? Less than savings account interest i'll bet

 

It appears the best way to make money by renting out houses (here in the netherlands at least) is still through buying old houses in college towns and rent out each room to a different student Of course you have to cut down all the costs you can (being handy and doing most maintenance work yourself helps a lot for instance), after all the best renter one can have (in general) is a kid who moves out of his parents house for the first time. They mainly care about getting out of there and having a place of their own

 

PS: The not having kids part, the difference is staggering

What ever news story that tells you some has calculated the cost of raising a kid, they wont include again our friend compound interest

Say its 250k a kid, factor in tucking away those costs into something again like a share portfolio, or something thats going to net 10% a year and COMPOUND regularly and 20 or 30 years later you are talking closer to 500k per kid

 

I see that having a kid (or more) can be enormously fulfilling but yeah, they cost a lot. Money, time, responsibility. Basically they will change your life and impact your 'freedom' in a certain way. It depends upon the potential parent(s) and their situation if it is a good idea to start a family. Some are unlucky (or fairly stupid) and did not plan on having one but got one nevertheless.

 

Its a lot easier to avoid if you hate kids ...and females

 

I only 'hate' kids if they are near me for too long. In theory I am very fond of kids. In reality I just don't like to be around them all day. Maybe this changes if I have my own (which I am certainly not in a hurry to). Females though make (my) life worth living (and no it is not mainly about taking as much of them as I can to funky town)