Illegal Immigration

But you didn't say "unassimilated" and "illegal" immigrants. You said hordes. Are you afraid of the hordes, Huck? Are the hordes coming to get you?

 

I referred to "hordes of unassimilated [Muslim] immigrants" in Europe and likened them to the swarms (!) of illegal aliens that pour across our Mexican border and then demand impunity for flagrantly breaking the law. This is a slap in the face to all who dutifully jump through the necessary hoops to enter this country legally.

 

umm... 1812. Turned out Canadians didn't want to be American. Crazy, eh?

Just a point here, about immigrating legally. It's not all that easy to become an American citizen, or even a landed immigrant. Its easier if you are fleeing for your life from a crazy dictator who is threatening genocide, but even then there are no "for sure"s.

It's crazy expensive to LEGALLY immigrate, and takes a long time... if you have so much as a MJ charge on your record, or a stint in a mental hospital or a history of communist affiliation, you basically get the door slammed in your face. And if they do say "umm.. no, we don't want you here" you are still out the near $10,000 it cost you to even apply in the first place.

 

What does that have to do with this thread? It doesn't even make sense.

No, there are no guarantee's unless you're cuban. Is that somehow different from other western nations immigration policies?

Should we have to take everyone elses criminals or mentally disturbed people?

 

There are other avenues, besides seeking asylum. Work and student visas, for example.

Yet thousands manage to do it, such as my wife (who came here for college) and our adopted son from Mexico.

First of all, $10,000 seems very exaggerated. I know quite a few legal immigrants, and I don't think any of them paid near that amount. Second, I'm all for discussing ways to ease the burden on those who seek to immigrate here legally. Rewarding those who flout the law is not the answer.

 

I was including all the medical fees, picture fees, finger printing fees and all the other fees that are needed. I was estimating, granted... but for me to immigrate my husband and I priced everything out and it came to around $6000 when it was all done and finished. For a family to immigrate it would be more expensive.

I wasn't saying that illegal immigrants are in the right... was just offereing a reason as to why some of the illegal immigrants are illegals. And I wasn't saying that the US immigration system is really any different than other Western Nations', but you were all talking about immigrating to the US and illegal immigrants in the US, not other Western Nations.

IMO, just because someone has a MJ possion charge doesn't make them a criminal, per say... just means they smoked some pot in their youth. And just because someone spent a month in a mental hospital doesn't mean that they are currently having mental difficulties... it could just mean that they had a severe depression or something like that. Some things that are relatively minor in the real world can REALLY effect your chances of immigrating successfully.

It was a lot easier to immigrate pre-9/11, not that it shouldn't be. The world has changed, so immigration has to change too. It sometimes just feels that all these rules and restrictions are harming ordinary non-american people who just want to live with their American loved ones.

 

How about starting with not nationalizing the oil industry in Mexico and allowing foriegn investments?

" He upbraided the government for squandering its petroleum windfall instead of delivering long-term benefits for the owners of Petroleos Mexicanos (Pemex), Mexico’s 100 million citizens. After more than 65 years of owning this wonderful resource, they’re still waiting for benefits like better health and education systems and more jobs. "

http://www.mexidata.info/id601.html

 

Excellent point.

 

Yes, they should. That's not a quick fix though.


And arguing that "its illegal" is really just an evasion. Alcohol was illegal during prohibition. Marijuana is illegal now. People who used either were breaking the law, so yes, they broke the law. Does criminalising millions of people accomplish anything? Is it right, and in our best interests, to make it difficult to come here for work so that people choose to do it illegally? These are willing workers working for willing employers. The law makes it impossible for them to work legally and pay there taxes, but we blame them for it anyway?

Do you want fortress America? Do you want huge prisons filled with hundreds of thousands of Mexican gardeners and maids? Do you want the court systems to deal will millions more felony cases each year?

 

until we secure our border...any talk on immigration is rather silly.

 

Just a side note, have you guys ever seen the movie "A day without Mexicans"? Basically, California wakes up to find all the Latinos gone.... and quickly realizes that they are screwed. Its a comedy.. not a "illegal immigrants are good" movie. Just thought you might find it interesting.

 

You apparently believe it's in "our" best interests to have unrestricted immigration and the depressed wages that would result.

 

No, I believe that Mexican labour is good for the economy. If we had a massively expanded guest worker program, they wouldn't be illegal immigrants.

 

Why is it "good" for the economy? You must either (1) untenably deny that it drives down wages or (2) believe that's a good thing. I refer you yet again to an article I cited earlier:

http://www.oregonir.org/undermining_american_workers.htm

 

I'm sorry but I've stopped reading links to long editorials. For one, its an editorial. The fact that there exists someone who has put their opinion on the internet does not make something true. For two, if you can't make your own argument in your own words, then its more about what you are biased to believe than what you know. For three, all issues have their supporters and opponents. What are we going to to, have competitive linking? Whoever links the most wins?

And no, for the economy as a whole I don't think it drives down wages. I'm keeping in mind that you are a protectionist that doesn't think we should be competing with Mexicans in Mexico either, since you're opposed to free trade.

 

You are equating taxes with the economy as if they were the same thing.

 

Because our economy doesn't have fixed number of jobs. There is not a fixed amount of income to go around. It expands with the labour force. From a demand supply perspective, I don't think it matters much whether the immigrants are illegal.

 

I have stated my position that unchecked illegal immigration drives down wages. I cited the article merely to illustrate my point, which you've so far just ignored.

And your evidence is?

Given the near total lack of labor standards in Mexico, I think it is undeniable that unfettered trade affects our standards here. I've previously provided you with detailed analyses of this topic, which you've characteristically shrugged off.

 

I can link to lots of articles about how free trade is good. Would you like me to?

Well for starters it appears that many illegal immigrants work for around and often above the minimum wage. Therefore I can't see how they can be undercutting it. You've also failed to explain how waves of European immigrants would have done anythign other than lower wages.

Exactly. You want to drive the "hordes" of Mexicans back to Mexico, militarise the border and then refuse to trade with them because they're too poor. Great plan.

 

i'm sorry, but its an absolute fucking joke that we are basically locking down the northern border and keeping the southern border wide open.