Illegal Immigrants

Discussion in 'Protest' started by CrippleCreekFairy, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. YankNBurn

    YankNBurn Owner

    Messages:
    12,032
    Likes Received:
    10
    If you enter a country without going thru the proper process it is a crime. Some countries a crime they will kill you for.


    If you hire a person who unlawfully entered out country you should be charged with assisting a crimminal and tax crimes, social security crimes.

    Yup thats the black and white version, wont work, is pure BS but thats the black and white approach.
     
  2. underground04

    underground04 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    0
    no, the "illegal" terminology comes from the fact that they crossed the border without a passport at someplace other than a border crossing. they broke a law hence the term illegal. and this is @ langox and yarrow sun. illegals will work for longer at lower pay. americans arent going to bunk up with 15 of their cousins and relatives and work their asses off. they want to be able to live relatively comfortably by themselves, with a spouse/significant other or a few roommates. thats why they have the advantage, the farmers want to save money so i dont think them having to learn a few spanish commands or finding a bilingual out of the group will deter them. im sure they dont want to deal with bitchy white farmboys who want "ooovvvvverrrrtime pay" and "livable wages" and "lunch breaks"
     
  3. yarrow_sun

    yarrow_sun Member

    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    0
    "they broke a law hence the term illegal."
    Are all people who break laws (like speeding) called "illegals"?

    It's an inflammatory term for someone, assigned probably by someone with an axe to grind, and with enough foresight to see that by merely applying the term to a set of people, will get some people riled up. Probably some rigid right wing republican. ;)
     
  4. yarrow_sun

    yarrow_sun Member

    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Someone said that people from other countries can just walk in a hospital and get free medical care and their kids get free education.


    How is this different from americans who can get the same?
    Because the americans are tax payers? The farmers who hire them to work in the field might be paying them under the table, the same as he would the american kids down the road, back when they would do the work.
    Do immigrants without the proper border crossing papers have taxes taken out if they work in a factory or some other place where paychecks are used in the US?
     
  5. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    Messages:
    10,027
    Likes Received:
    2
    I have a college eduation and from time to time I like to work the crops, I grew up doing it. But now if you don't know Spanish, write it read it you can't even go out and harvest when they need hands. Don't tell me what jobs I won't do.

    Tolstoy used to disappear from time to time. Know where they found him out harvesting crops with the peasants. If you've never done it you have no idea who is willing to do the work.

    I grew up harvesting crops here in California. Got a work permit at 12. But now no one will hire me because I can't speak and write Mexican, most of the Mexican's can't either. Anglos will harvest crops if the farm bosses don't mandidate that they know Spanish. Don't feed me that crap that Anglos won't take the jobs, if given the chance.
     
  6. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    Messages:
    10,027
    Likes Received:
    2
    It's not the right wing rebuplicans or the democratic party that see illegal immigration as infringing on law biding citizens, it's the citizens who have seen it first and call for an accounting. The main political parties just wish to see their corporate buddies happy. And allowing a illegal workforce in most cases keeps them happy. It's only the upcoming election that has raised the question.
     
  7. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    Messages:
    10,027
    Likes Received:
    2
    The only thing different here, is that those kid's parents paid taxes and lived in this country. Bush and the Mexican government are pushing for granting migrant workers social security after they returned to Mexico. Here in the States we are being told it won't support legal US citizens, but the push is to expand the coverage to retired migrant workers who have return
    to Mexico. That let's Mexico off the hook, and makes the US citizens responsible for a whole new segment of the poverty stricken world. Always remember to read the small print and not just buy into the sound bites.
     
  8. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    Messages:
    10,027
    Likes Received:
    2
    How many strawberries do they raise in Wisconsin? They raise a lot of here in California and they also raise and propagate the plants, ever cut strawberry plants...I have.

    Anglos would be working the farms right now in California if the syndicated farms hadn't found that hiring illegals was more cost effective.
     
  9. gardener

    gardener Realistic Humanist

    Messages:
    10,027
    Likes Received:
    2
    Think "Joe Gringo" could walk into a Mexican hospital and get free medical care...it works both ways. As for education poor Mexicans can't get free education in Mexico.

    Taxes are sometimes taken out, but they are accepted under fraudalent accounts when they are, and sometimes this leads to innoncent taxpayers undergoing audits for taxes they are not aware of. Some employers don't even bother with withholding they know no one is going to follow up. Now Mexico wants us to turn those tax funds over to them. Didn't you ever listen to some of Foxe's speeches, he wanted the US to look after his lower level citizens.
     
  10. underground04

    underground04 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    0
    you ignored the rest of my post, they're called illegal immigrants because they illegaly immigrated here. illegals is just a shortening of that. fine, let me put it another way, i dont think persons with national origin differences who uhh (how do you say 'crossed the border illegaly' politically correctly? oops, i mean use the preferred term) should be allowed in this country.
     
  11. yarrow_sun

    yarrow_sun Member

    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    0
    So undocumented immirants who work in the US don't pay taxes? They dont have SS taken out of their checks?
    http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml

    The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans

    The 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization. The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education.
    Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers

    I read the fine print, did you? :p
     
  12. yarrow_sun

    yarrow_sun Member

    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    0
    No- that was in reference to undocumented immigrants getting a free education and medical care here.

    So, you have no beef with "illegals" from other countries, just Mexico?

    Gosh, those employers you speak of sound like they're doing something illegal. :rolleyes:

    Who is Foxe?
     
  13. Langox510x

    Langox510x Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0




    If pay were what a lot of American's ask these jobs probably would be overseas or wouldn't exist. A lot of the people paying these migrants aren't even rich so how would they afford to pay anything more?? Instead of crying and wining about it why don't you go out into the fields and take your jobs right back??? I'm black and when my mother who happens to have a Masters in Business got a job back in the 80's I can remember her telling me about this under qualified reject who claimed she got the job he was going for because of affirmative action. There will always be someone you can claim took your job, but honestly how can you know this unless you are there person doing all the hiring?? Until then folks need to keep their trap shut.
     
  14. yarrow_sun

    yarrow_sun Member

    Messages:
    398
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oh my goodness, I am so sorry that I didnt address each point you made.
    1-they arent subject to us labor laws(minimum wage, social security, unemployment insurance, maximum hours etc.). this gives them an unfair advantage over americans and means theyre eaiser for employers to exploit
    You're upset that they are getting paid less than minimum wage?
    They do pay into SS. I don't pay unemployment insurance. I work in a salaried position so there is no maximum hours. It's big of you to be concerned on the behalf of adults who can choose if they will accept a wage, or work over 40 hours.

    2-many dont learn english. we speak english in america dammit! i have no problem with people maintining part of their identity, speaking their former language and having their neighborhoods and whatnot but atleast be bilingual! why should the natve born have to adapt to new arrivals?
    Many immigrants with Visas don't learn english. So?

    3-the way they protest. raising american flags upside down under mexican flags This sounds like a gross over generalization. if i witnessed this i would probably flip them all off and yell "fuck you wetbacks!" im not racist at all but if when somebody does that especially SOMEONE WHO WANTS TO BE ALLOWED TO BE HERE!! you'd better expect a racial slur to fly (again im not racist but that would really piss me off). Funny, you sound racist when you use the term "wetbacks".

    4-nobody talks about alternitave solutions. Sure, people do, but people are listening to the $$ as usual.
    or addressing the corruption of mexico's government. my goodness, maybe the US will try to straighten out those wetbacks corrupt gov't when they get done straightening out the middle east.
    i also cant stand the people who think its all okay; corporate assholes who care for nothing but money and pc, ivory tower liberals who love illegal aliens because because theyre poor, non-white, and opposing the us government.
    huh? the big corporations love people they can oppress 'cause.... they can oppress them and pay them 0.25 an hour. then they can funnel the big profits back into the corrupt american gov't. using money to buy votes to keep the repub's in control.

     
  15. Langox510x

    Langox510x Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    We went over that in Poli Sci class last year.

    OT: Today I talked to this guy I hate and he admitted to me he hated Mexican's. Funny because he doesn't know many Mexican's. He told me they would always pick on him in school.



    I told him If I was him I would probably hate white people (he's white) because they are the only people I've ever seen pick on him in person. Man is this guy ugly as hell, and a group of white kids + 1 Asian let him have it at my last party. One of the white kids walked off with his nice leather Jacket. And they made fun of him. He's a really easy target so everybody talks shit about him, white, black, asian, Hispanic, so I just don't understand why he singles out the minorities, and doesn't just hate everybody.


    One thing I live by is don't hate the race hate the person.
     
  16. underground04

    underground04 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    0

    You're upset that they are getting paid less than minimum wage? yes, i am
    They do pay into SS. I don't pay unemployment insurance. I work in a salaried position so there is no maximum hours. It's big of you to be concerned on the behalf of adults who can choose if they will accept a wage, or work over 40 hours. well americans wont work for slave wages for 15 hours a day, thats why illegal immigrants get hired

    Many immigrants with Visas don't learn english. So? well, they should. and the majority of illegal aliens dont bother learning the language, so i brought it up

    Funny, you sound racist when you use the term "wetbacks". i know. people have a tendency to say extreme things out of emotion, in this case anger.


    my goodness, maybe the US will try to straighten out those wetbacks corrupt gov't when they get done straightening out the middle east. wtf are you talking about? did i ever mention invading mexico?

    huh? the big corporations love people they can oppress 'cause.... they can oppress them and pay them 0.25 an hour. then they can funnel the big profits back into the corrupt american gov't. using money to buy votes to keep the repub's in control. exactly
     
  17. underground04

    underground04 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    0
    im not saying you should give them 10$ an hour or anything. and the fact that any jobs would be allowed to be overseas is a problem in itself. now about you suggesting that americans take the jobs back ourselves, thats impossable since illegal immigrants will work for less for longer. also, i never said anything about affirmitive action. your mother never said she'd work longer hours for less pay and the white guy was underqualified, totally different.
     
  18. Langox510x

    Langox510x Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    So why don't you just take the pay cut and longer harder working conditions??? That or try and get a job illegals won't qualify for?? That doesn't seem impossible to me.
     
  19. underground04

    underground04 Member

    Messages:
    636
    Likes Received:
    0
    by your logic, americans should be manufacturing shoes at 25 cents an hour. and i would definately get a job that illegals dont qualify for, but you said if americans wanted the jobs back they should take them back.
     
  20. Langox510x

    Langox510x Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    0
    Never!!!

    Mexican's wouldn't work for that low a wage even in their own country.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice