Illegal Aliens, Why Let Them In?

This is a fantasy debate. I don't see the relevance to the real world. People formed an actual country, then formed immigration laws, as actual countries always do.

 

Yeah, I agree. I hate how blame is placed on some of the world's poorest people as if they come here for nefarious reasons instead of out of desperation. The same businesses that employ illegal immigrants also have no problem sending their jobs overseas for the same reason.

And I don't get why so many people miss this point.

 

That's true only if you speak of "White Man's Laws." The indigious people were the rightful owners of the land. America was not discovered by White men. There were human beings living in it. There is extensive discussion on this matter in the protocol of the rights of indiginous people, at the UN. One cannot claim another human is an illegal alien when the the one doing the calling is not the rightful owner of the land.

 

Did they have laws against immigration to North America?

 

Good point, they did not by the European definition. They did have their social, cultural, and traditional rules. Most tribes did not have a written language. When it comes to the issue of land ownership, I don't see where someone could claim that Indian land was "No Man's Land."

 

Some tribes had no concept of land ownership. Others believed that land rights could be established only through warfare, which they regularly fought with other tribes. Some tribes sided with Europeans over long-time rival tribes, trying to gain an advantage. Others signed peace treaties, which were routinely broken by both sides. I can't honestly say that one side was a lot nicer than the other. The PC crowd wants to portray the natives as one big, happy family, but that isn't the truth.

Also, another problem was that once a generation or two of Europeans had been born in the US, going "back home" was hardly an option for them. I'm talking about ordinary working people, not wealthy leaders. They didn't own any houses or have jobs "back home", had never seen Europe or the UK, and had no money to get there. Surviving here, anyway they could, was their only option. This was their home, chosen for them by their recent ancestors.

 

I think writing was first done in Persia, however I read years ago that one of the native american tribes came up with a written language also. Don't remember which one. And obviously they looked at the land , the animals and all of nature as part of themselves, unlike white folks for whom land is to make money. Oh boy---free land!!

Like Eddie Izzard in one of his routines when he was describing how wonderful this new land was-----then looked over his shoulder and saw some native americans------"who the fuck are those guys?"

 

I find myself in total agreement with your explaination. And it is an excellent one. The tribes did fight one another. They did side with the Europeans to get an advantage from time to time. The second generation Europeans had no home to go back to; therefore, I see this a little deeper today, because the Mexicans, Muslims, and Somalis have no home to go back to. I always see similarities between aliens and refugees. Somewhere, humanity needs to learn compassion.

 

There may have been more than one tribe, but the Cherokees did it first. They go the idea from the English, but didn't receive any help in making it happen. At that time, the tribe was living in a big oval area on both sides of the NC-Georgia border.

Speaking of natives, what should we call somebody who was born here but has parents or grandparents from somewhere else? George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and Ben Franklin were all born in the Colonies and grew up here.

How many generations of a family have to live somewhere before it's okay for you to be in that place? Native Americans had ancestors from other places too. They walked from northeastern Russia to Alaska, thousands of years ago. So, it's not a simple issue.

 

The Cherokee and Natchez both had written languages. Interestingly enough, the original Cherokee language was written from right to left, like Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic. All the old ones who used to know it are now gone. So, the young Cherokees use European letters to write from left to right today. The name Cherokee sounds a lot like Cherokhee in Hebrew and Arabic, which means person or people of the wheel. So, it my mean they used the wheel early on. It may mean to immigrated or were visited by people from the Middle East. Clive Cussler wrote a great story called The Navigator, about Phoenicians who sailed to the New World. Check it out.

 

You are correct the only point that I sought to make is that modern Americans judging other immigrants for their coming to the U.S. is hypocritical regardless of the latters illegitimate nature.

 

Wow, it's really rare to run across anybody who cares or knows anything about the Natchez Indians! I've been to the visitor center and museum at the site of their original main village. The Natchez tribe had a big problem with French colonists, not English.

 

I don't know, I tend to side with the people who weren't invaders on foreign soil, hellbent on subjugating the inhabitants of the land when it comes to which side was nicer than the other. Point being there shouldn't have been treaties for the Natives to sign in the first place. Or if it is all right for foreigners to come and take over a people's land, then what's wrong with the Mexicans doing it? Many of them are stuck here now. They don't have homes to return to. And generations will pass, and fewer of them will have homes to return to.

So then they'll start taking over our villages, towns, and cities, and force us into ghettos and make us sign treaties stating that our ghettos belong to us, and then they'll kick us out of our ghettos and move us to different ghettos halfway across the country. And they'll be so familiar with being third or fourth class citizens, they'll know exactly what to do to make sure that life is that much better for all people, creating a nation superior to the United States.

Everyone fears that which they do not understand, but give the Mexicans a chance. They might just surprise you.

 

Some day the majority of the USA will speak spanish....

 

Cool, the Natchez were also a people who did not live in T.P.s They lived in actual villages and towns made with structures of thatch, Mud adobe bricks, and reeds. They were actually not hunter gatherers. They were sedentary farmers and did lots of fishing.

 

I mean, I'm pretty liberal, but of course there should be some control on the amount of legal immigration, and we should discourage illegal immigration.

Because logistics. We can't handle the financial, legal, security, healthcare, and other obstacles of a complete open border. Having an immigration policy isn't inherently racist. It's just basic nation state management.

The only countries I know of with really loose migration policies I know of don't have many applications for visa's. Countries like Cambodia and Georgia, which do have far more emigration than immigration.

 

There's one house replica remaining, though it needs serious repairs. Mounds remain that once supported the temple and the chief's house. I got the idea that their visitor center and museum doesn't get many visitors anymore, unfortunately. Most people come to that area only to see Civil War era history.

The Cherokees built houses too. They have a very nice tourist setup in the town of Cherokee, NC. Everything is historically authentic and well-maintained.
http://www.cherokeehistorical.org/oconaluftee-indian-village/

Numbers. We can't take on the entire population of Mexico.

 

I used tee-pee for clarification of a point. The native americans in the north west built structures also with much use of cedar.

 

Lest we forget there are lots of ways for migrants and so forth to enter the country legally. At some point it becomes illegal for them to continue doing what they are doing. Perhaps the law says you can live here with a Visa or Greencard or something like that. Those expire though if I'm not mistaken. Once they do they must be renewed, like a library book. It's altogether possible that what we in this thread are referring to as illegal immigrants are in fact documented legal migrant workers. Nothing wrong with that.