If you're not a religious Jew, you're not a Jew

Honestly, I dind't even bother reading anything past the first post but I just had to reply. I'm a long time lurker and I have to ask WHERE THE FUCK DO YOU GET YOUR INFO FROM?

Seriously? I study Anthropology at UofT with focus on ethnicity and genetics. First of all the whole "race" concept is completely outdated and no respected scientist will still use that term. So yes Jews are NOT a race but neither are Scandinavians or Native Americans. Our world is composed of ethnic groups which are composed of various aspects: Culture,Lineage,Language ect. Get it? If you actually did some research of Jewish history maybe you'd understand the whole concept of Zionism a lot clearer.

Do you have a hard book definition of what makes a group of humans a "People" or Ethnic group? You probably don't, here's the dictionary.com definition: "Identity with or membership in a particular racial, national, or cultural group and observance of that group's customs, beliefs, and language". So no, you don't need a blood lineage to be considered an Ethnic. REGARDLESS, Jews are one of the few ethnic groups (that has been dispersed) to have a relatively homogeneous lineage.

The fact is, that at some point in history the ancestors of the Jews (The Hebrews), settled the land of Israel and developed a culture and religion that has lasted 1000s of years. If you were to analyze the mitochondrial DNA of a Jew, whether he/she be Ashkenazim, Sephardi or Mirzam, he/she WILL have DNA evidence of a common origin of somewhere near the Levant. The only confusing aspect of this is that we now have to separate Jews from Hebrews (Or Israelites). As mentioned earlier, most Jews will feature the J1 or J2 DNA marker that gives evidence to a Middle-Eastern origin. These Jews are Hebrews. Like I said, only a percentage of Jews will feature that genetic marker. Some Jews are just converts.

You need to understand the difference between a Jew and a Hebrew. A Jew is someone who adheres and follows Judaism. An Arab can be a Jew, a German can be a Jew and a Russian can be a Jew. A Hebrew is someone with origins in the Levant. A Hebrew can be a Christian, a Muslim or a Jew.

 

Yeah the OP is an idiot. He's stuck up on the word "race" as if that means anything. What he should be using is the word "ethnicity" of which Jews are obviously an ethnic group.

An ethnic group is a group of humans who share a common language, religion, culture, etc. Jews are one. The Irish are one. Vietnamese are one. Mexicans are one (I wonder if the OP would call Mexican a race. He probably thinks all Mexicans are one race and not a mixture of Natives, Spaniards, and the majority: mixed Spaniard/Natives). Take East Asia. They're all Asians but not all one race. Most Vietnamese/Cambodians/Thai are brown while a good amount of Chinese are paler but still retain a good portion who are brown-skinned. That's what we mean by race. But if we bring in ETHNICITIES into the equation? Holy shit. In China alone you have 56 different ethnic groups that people identify with.

Anyway, these Xenon guy seems like he has prejudices (constantly complaining about Zionism which is warranted because I have problems with Israel too) so it's not like you can change him on something relating to Jews, even common knowledge.

 

I have to defend one aspect of Xexon's argument.
Speaking from a standpoint that is strictly logical and religious:
The Torah is a religious document.
If a religious document states that you are Jewish because your mother is Jewish - yet, you do not practice that religion - you aren't a Jew.

However, speaking from a context of ethnicities and cultures, I guess it would all depend on how you identify yourself with the group.

 

Maybe to you it does. I don't let what other people think about me, affect me.

Oh no, being Jewish is more than a faith - it is interrelated with ethnicity and nationality. Judaism is where the Jewish nation originated - it's not just a matter of religion - people are the religion, religion is the people.

From your post, it comes across that you just have a hatred towards the Jewish race.

udaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation

 

i know nothing about judiasm, but i was gonna slightly defend the OP too. it's an interesting argument. my grandparents might have been practicing catholics, but my parents aren't, and i definitely am not. i was baptized but that's it. i wouldn't really consider myself a catholic.

BUT the whole thing with ethnicities and genetics is more relevant in my opinion, as a biochemist. it's a fact that even though jews (speaking very broadly) have interbred with other races or religions, jews would still tend to stick together. most groups do. but it's known that jews have a risk for certain genetic diseases where you need two recessive copies of a gene to have the disease. so it's common when both parents are jewish. i dont' have a solid example though, so i could just be making this up

 

Why cant we be defined as people and not by our beliefs?

 

Some people don't know what they are talking about?

 

Or when they did it?

 

Mmm...lovn' me some xexon necro action.

 

If you aren't a religious Jew, you're not a Jew, just Jew-ish.

 

"If you aren't a religious Jew, you're not a Jew, just Jew-ish."

Not true.
Some follow the Torah and would not see themselves as religious because it is in our nature to live this way and do these things.

 

It was a bad joke. :sunny:

 

We live by a code of conduct.
And we are smarter.
Possibly our lives are more meaningful because we seek?

 

As we go through life we may or may not realise that we are shaped by the Torah or Jewish way ,importantly it allows us to ask good questions and make distinctions , it also values family being tight and well bonded, acceptance, willingness to look beyond and most importantly it values learning, education and intellect.
Many people who study ethics and science are Jewish and the Nobel Prize seems often awarded to Jewish people.
It is a way of thinking , i don't say we are better just chipped differently from most people .
I like the fact we value education so highly and we question everything , the world needs it right now.

To some respect for our bodies, what we can or can't do,how treat the dying and then the dead, what we can eat and all the "rules" of the Torah may seem stupid but i like the order and most of it makes sense.

Hope that explains my feelings to some extent?

 

What about non orthodox judaism?

 

I don't think it matters, non-orthodox are probably better adjusted to the real world and more accepting .
Dogma can get in the way of free-thinking and being a decent person.

 

So someones smarter because their a jew lol wow really because of your religion your smarter. I have a friend who's jewish...my grade and IQ are higher than his...not a jew...hey maybe im really the jew

 

Hillbilly,

IQ doesn't qualify you as being a Jew but the way you think has a lot to do with outcomes and choices you will make in life.
You miss the point, it is how upbringing and socialisation shape the person.
It just happens that depending on the culture we are exposed to, what things are considered valuable within that culture .
Cause and effect.
In some ways any culture that doesn't worship sport and popular culture will produce kids that are more academic?

It is not a statement of that Jews are better so please don't think it is .
Nobel awards are a fact .