If Rubio or Carson had won...

Discussion in 'Politics' started by PoeticPeacenik, Dec 14, 2020.

  1. PoeticPeacenik

    PoeticPeacenik For Peace

    Genuine and honest question. Do you think if Marco Rubio or Ben Carson had won the 2016 presidential election (instead of Trump), do you think Republicans/conservatives would have been just as "obsessed", and as defensive and easily offended regarding Rubio or Carson as they are regarding Trump? I dont mean anything by my question. I know this is a hippie site so probably not many Republicans or Trump supporters here but if they happen to be, just know I dont mean anything by my question. I'm just genuinely wondering.

    It seems that if you disagree with Trump or say anything about him or question him or make a joke about him, that you're quickly accused of being anti-Trump. And I never remember people having 4 or 5 signs in their yards before with their candidate's name on it or turning the channel because someone said something they didnt like about the president. When Bush was in office, his supporters (who are now Trump supporters) weren't so quick to accuse you of being anti-Bush. At least you could make a joke about him or ask questions or disagree with him. I mean I was a kid back then. I dont remember it well. But it just seems like his supporters weren't that way. If I'm incorrect, please feel free to correct me. By the way, the only incident I can remember of someone saying something about Bush that pissed people off was when the Dixie Chicks said something and everyone boycotted them.

    Anyway, I kinda went on a ramble. Back to the original question. If Marco Rubio or Ben Carson had won instead, do you think Republicans/conservatives would have been the same way with either of them (being easily defensive or offended of jokes made about them, accusing people who disagree of being anti-Rubio or anti-Carson, turning the channel when a TV show said something about them that they didn't like, etc.)?

    I hope my post doesn't get any hate, regardless of which side anyone may align with. My question is just that. A genuine innocent, curious-minded question. ❤
     
  2. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ Administrator Super Moderator

    A good question indeed.

    I think the reason they did not get picked is neither being a really STRONG candidate. Carson was asleep most of the time, and Rubio? Pfft. No substance at all except for the Cuban heels, which make him slightly taller. He's not tall enough to be a world leader.

    I hate to say this but you have to be over 6 feet tall to qualify in today's culture.

    Trump is a bully, and he bullied his way to the Bully Pulpit with his mafioso tactics and dishonesty. Maybe it will be his downfall in the end, we can only hope so.

    Thanking the Electoral College today... oddly.
     
    granite45 likes this.
  3. PoeticPeacenik

    PoeticPeacenik For Peace

    But I just wonder if Carson or Rubio had won, would conservatives had been obsessed over them as well, and so easily offended or defensive?
     
    ~Zen~ likes this.
  4. erofant

    erofant Members

    IMO - THE REPUBLICAN PARTY has become a party of facades. (facade - the exterior or superficial aspect of something. A front that one sees.) By that I mean the REAL driving forces behind the party are MEGA-RICH, power-hungry, autocrats that, by using their vast hoards of money and job/career leverage over the huge majority of Americans - they force what they want to happen. They pay insane amounts of money to advertise in all media - all the time - to brainwash people into voting for figureheads / facades that the REAL powerbrokers want in place to do their bidding. And it seems the louder, more forceful & brash the figureheads talk ( the "tough guy, macho image" so many of them present ) the more people buy into their lies and bullshyt. (The louder and "tougher" acting - the more convincing.) It's a party today of oligarchs - just like in COMMUNIST RUSSIA. OWNED and operated by oligarchs.

    What is an oligarchy?? It's a government that only serves a few, (NOT the majority of the people) - usually the ones with the most money and thus the most power to buy & influence people. LOOK UP oligarch and oligarchy. Then - after reading the definitions ............ try to convince yourselves that's not the kind of government we actually have here in the U.S. with what THE REPUBLICAN PARTY actually DOES with their legislation ( like HUGE tax breaks for THE VERY RICH ) and "roll-backs" of various protections for working people, the environment, our air, our water, etc. How HUGE was your tax break??? How many years did you "legally" (by REPUBLICAN LEGISLATION) pay very little - or NO - taxes??? Since the REPUBLICAN-WRITTEN "tax overhaul" how much profit-sharing money did you get as a result of all the tax savings to companies?? Still getting those $1000 bonuses every year??

    NO???????? You think you may have been taken for a ride by those "we're for you avg. American" REPUBLICAN facades/figureheads?? The MEGA-RICH get those huge breaks every year - it's just YOU that don't.

    They don't present any new ideas, or have any SENSIBLE long-term plans that will benefit the masses in the U.S. ............. but they sure come up with ideas that will further benefit the MEGA-RICH powerbrokers who are the MEGA DONORS to their political campaigns. And the proof is when any Republican shows some spine, some ethics on a particular subject ......... and disagrees with the herd of facades in THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. Take for instance this election. What happened to any Republican like Mitt Romney, or the Republican gentleman from Virginia (whose name escapes me at the moment - I'll add it later) ?? They get pummeled, ostracized, censured, verbally slashed & attacked - because they dared to go against the "corporate ideology" and strayed from the HERD.

    Rubio, Carson, Cruz, Pence, Dasher, Donner, Blitzen ............ it won't matter. The MEGA-RICH powerbrokers will dictate who, what, when, where, why, and how to the REPUBLICAN PARTY - because by their HUGE political donations - they OWN IT. ( Just the KOCH BROS. alone donated $800 million dollars to Republican campaigns. Just those 2 brothers.) "Larry Smith ..... you would like a safer work place?? Donna Wilson ....... you would like to be paid equally to the men doing your same job?? Frank DiVecchio ....... you'd like safe, clean water coming out of your faucet?? Well ............. ah ..........we don't have the economics in place to do those things now. Deficit is bad, you know. Things are tough ......... everyone knows that."

    "Mickey McMoneybags ........... you'd like to have your taxes slashed so you only pay $500 on your $57 million income?? Why don't you join me for some nice single-malt Scotch here in my private office - and we'll discuss the particulars to make that happen. Care for a nice hand-rolled Cuban cigar?? " Their souls belong to money.

    Now how does that Bible verse go ............. " you CANNOT serve God and money."
     
    ~Zen~ likes this.
  5. KennyOmega

    KennyOmega Members

    I don't really think that Rubio or Carson had any chances of winning. The question is quite strange tho.
     
  6. soulpoker

    soulpoker Members

    I seriously doubt they would have anywhere near the following of what's his name, who's delusional and full of himself to cartoonlike levels, an ideal cult leader. His followers are a hair away from being cult members. I wish I were exaggerating. He is charismatic in an insidious way. He's loud, undiplomatic, actively unintellectual (as opposed to stupid, which he is too*), verbally abusive and oh so self serving. The yokels who feel their whiteness, Christianity, heterosexuality and guns are threatened see some kind of savior in him. He can call them a bunch of assholes and they'll still want to give him rim jobs.
    A lot of people love the rich especially if they're over the top and love attention. They are good (a very relative word here) people who have worked so hard and they deserve every penny they've got, even though many rich person worshipers don't have a pot to piss in. Ben Carson and Marco Rubio are too well polished to stick out like what's his name has stuck out.
    Unfortunately the Republican Party made a deal with the devil. He has a lot of power in the Party now. Someone has mentioned in this thread there's no place for principled Republicans right now. Do not acknowledge Joe Biden's victory or you're done. It's OK and even encouraged to feed what's his name's narcissism by suggesting the backhill military cosplayers and other illegal and unconstitutional means keep him in office by any means necessary. No other Republican presidential candidate could muster such attention.

    *In a general sense. He is crafty in getting material wealth, and with a populist, somewhat folksy, everyman vibe manipulative with dissatisfied people with some sense of entitlement, so there's that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
    ~Zen~ likes this.
  7. soulpoker

    soulpoker Members

    Points very well taken. The Republican Party is the party of the rich. They are also the party of "no." This is why fundamentalists support an asshole who's been divorced a few times, rips certain kids from their parents (but that doesn't matter because Jay-zus wasn't a spic), and advocates grabbing women "there" (and has a Jew son in law). But oh, look at our "president" (my eyes rolling) shooing away the lazy BLM troublemakers so he can ceremoniously march to a church & stand with Bible in hand and crocodile tears on his ugly orange face. And he gives us religious rights...to keep the faggots away from our workplace and our children. Oh won't somebody please think of the children?
    But, going back to address your point, the Democratic Party has become not much better. Their ear is bent to the highest bidder too. Sure, they are not the party of "no." But they have also supported bullshit initiatives such as clean coal. They might not be as sold out but they still do to some degree what the megarich tell them. In fact a lot of entities with a lot of money hedge their bets and contribute to both major American parties.
    I generally support the Democrats on paper but I'm not a big enough fan to belong to the party.
     
  8. erofant

    erofant Members

    Since the "Pandemic Stimulus" has been negotiated & bickered over for months while AVG. Americans lose their jobs by the millions, homes, apartments, and are increasingly struggling to put food on their tables - which party has been fighting for the MOST HELP for those AVG. American families?? Democrats. Which party has been fighting to keep that monetary help to AVG. American families as low as possible ?? (claiming the deficit is too big - after rewarding big corporations and the MEGA-RICH with HUGE tax breaks in their "tax overhaul" - thus taking "rich money" out of the U.S. treasury, making the deficit much worse.) Which party also rolls back, weakens, or eliminates environmental protections?? THE REPUBLICANS.

    There are no perfect political parties in Washington, but I'll stick with the party that has - for DECADES - fought for AVG. American workers, (and still does), and writes laws that protect our environment for us and future generations. We have no other planet to fly away to. This is ALL WE HAVE. If humans F it up - we die ............ probably slowly, torturously, so we can agonize over what we did ........ and didn't do.
     

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