If God loves us unconditionally, why does he kill us instead of curing us?

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by GreatestIam, Feb 2, 2019.

  1. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,079
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    Again, your use of "we" is inappropriate, because you are Gnostic in name only. The real Gnostics of antiquity could indeed believe in both a demiurge and the Monad. A being powerful enough to create teh material universe, and a higher entity would presumably both be supernatural.
     
  2. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    Why you can't see is why I do not know either.

    Regards
    DL
     
  3. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    Then so is all of that era and beyond which ends all the discussions in all such sites.

    That is why I rely on my apotheosis to guide me. It is relevant. Impossible to prove but not to me.

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    Have you ever seen a rendering of a Monad in a Gnostic Christian church? I have not.

    There are references to the oneness of all that is but that thinking system is way older than Gnostic Christianity. We do recognize and use oneness as a concept but only in the sense that we see the reality of matter as evolving perfection.

    I hope you recall my giving you that information near the start of your Gnostic O.P. Heaven is here and now and that is the oneness Monad speaks to.

    Regards
    DL
     
  5. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,079
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    Have you ever seen a Gnostic Christian church? Where is it? What is it called? Who is "we"?
     
    BlackBillBlake likes this.
  6. storch

    storch banned

    Messages:
    5,293
    Likes Received:
    717
    No problem. Everyone mak--Almost everyone makes mistakes. Sooner or later I'll probably make one, too. :smile:
     
    GreatestIam, Asmodean and Okiefreak like this.
  7. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    Not sure why you suddenly mention the concept of oneness out of the blue.

    Far from seeing matter as evolving towards perfection, the gnostics lacked any concept of evolution, and believed the world to be a basically static and negative place. ruled over by an evil demiurge and his archons. Matter itself and the world in which we exist were thought of as evil.It constitutes a prison for the soul. There are traces of ths in the Bible, such as JC saying that one has 'hate the word' and so on.
    This kind of view is also found in some kinds of Hinduism and Buddhism.
     
  8. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    That is simply innane.
     
  9. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    I've never seen a Gnostic church, although such a thing does exist. Stephan Hoeller a scholar of Gnosticism, Jung and assorted esoterica has his own 'Ecclesia Gnostica' based in Los Angeles. You can search youtube if you wish and see him giving homilies dressed up like a Catholic bishop. Seems fairly harmless to me, and has nothing to do with the kind of pseudo 'gnosis' of Greatest, who already said in a previous post he's not into that particular organization.

    I tend to think that writers such as Elaine Pagels have a better idea, which is that existing churches could perhaps expand their horizons somewhat and take on some of the gnostic stuff, or individual Christains could do so if they wish.
     
  10. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    And there was silly me thinking God is omniscient.
     
  11. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,079
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    Yes, I know. Ther's also Rosamonde Miller's Ecclesia Gnostica Mysteriorum, the Johannite Church, and the Thomasine Church--none of which quite fit. We have yet to learn which of these, if any, Greatest I Am is affiliated with. The closest we come to the "I Am" language is, of course, the I Am Activity. He seems peculiarly evasive about the content of his own beliefs. Maybe it's the Egyptian magical idea that if we know the name of the god we gain power over it--namely him.
     
  12. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    I have seen renderings of one in California as well as one in France.

    You killed your own theory.

    Regards
    DL
     
  13. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    Our friend brought up the Nomad so it was not out of the blue.

    Have you not read what I put in the Gnostic O.P.?

    Let me repeat.

    I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

    The Christian reality.
    1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

    Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

    -----------

    The Gnostic Christian reality.

    Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

    "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

    If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

    Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

    [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

    But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

    As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

    Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

    Candide. "It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

    That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

    Regards
    DL
     
  14. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    Read my lips.
    We do not believe in the supernatural and do not read our myths literally.

    Regards
    DL
     
  15. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    That is rather silly given that no one can know anything of some supernatural realm or God.

    Regards
    DL
     
  16. GreatestIam

    GreatestIam Member

    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    42
    B.S.

    Show where I did not give a clear answer.

    Regards
    DL
     
  17. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    So how do you understand the myth of the demiurge as the ignorant and ill disposed creator of this world, as detailed in the Apocryphon of John'?
     
    Okiefreak likes this.
  18. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    You said yourself that you are God. Not much of a God it would seem.
     
    Okiefreak likes this.
  19. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    11,504
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    I already said I don't agree with your analysis. Didn't you read that?
     
  20. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,079
    Likes Received:
    4,937
    The Nag Hammadi codices refute you.
     
    BlackBillBlake likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice