I wanna say something.....

I hear what your saying I really do, but a person should never say I want to learn about a different culture and go into it with the first sentance being "I think its wrong"
thats judgemental and unfair and more or less the same as getting off a plane in a country and saying "I think the way you live your life is wrong, but tell me more about who you are"

now if the responses you are getting from a lot of people is defensive and angry, who's in the wrong exactly?
all of them or you?
seems you think theres a lot of unresonable people out there and your saying and doing nothing wrong
S

 

if you say something is wrong, you are making a judgement about it.
if you want to learn something more about a subject you know little about, go into it with an open mind.
its not a difficult concept, try and think about it
S

 

If I sounded harsh.....or biased , please forgive me , its only a protective instinct that I have , I happen to love my gay brothers and sisters , they are like family , and I am always verry careful when someone that doesnt quite agree with how we live comes round . If you honestly wish to know more about us , I am sure anyone of us would answer the questions that you have .

 

providing we don't feel we have to justify anything
S

 

you say you don't understand gays, what is it that you don't understand ? Ask some direct questions and we'll be more than happy to answer.

I was friends with a guy that had a dog that would come up to guys and start humping their legs, he didn't do this to girls, he only humped guys legs. My friend would look at his dog, shake his head saying 'oh, jeeze, sorry about that. I think my dog is a homo'. He said this not knowing I'm gay. I would just laugh it off, taking no offense.

peace out,
bob

 

Yea when I went back and read my first post I realized that I should have worded it differently. I sometimes have problems with saying words that I don't actually mean, but I'm sure that if you were able to read my face and the sound of my vioce, rather than the words that I type you would see my position a lot more clearly.

I was raised to believe that homosexuality is an evil sin. I'm just now coming to want to ask myself why. It's hard for me to throw away what I was raised to believe, expesially when the best people in my life have those views. You said to ask a question that you can answer, but the thing is I don't know what to ask. I don't really know what I'm looking for. I guess I'm just trying to find love in poeple that I once only saw hate for. Thats what I was trying to find with this thread, but I didn't realize it till just this moment. I'm trying to get the hate out of me, but it's hard when most of what I get in return is disrespect. I have to admit, at first reading all of those post was bringing the hate out of me that I'm trying to get rid of. Maybe now you can understand what I'm saying, even if thats not the case it doesn't really matter. But I do hope that you won't look at me in a bad light, and try to understand where I'm coming from.

Thank you for your comments. They aren't what I was expecting but I guess it's what I needed to hear. PEACE

 

If you spent some time with us...you would see that we are really no different than you and other stright people.....the only thing that makes us different in the worlds eyes is who we choose to love....as sad as that is...we eat ..sleep and breathe just like you.

 

and after you have said that you get my respect, because you are being honest and treating us with respect.

unfortuantly ultimatly its up to you to find the answers, people only hate a group of people that they feel threatened by, you have to think about why you feel threatened by the concept of homosexuality.
remember we're only human beings you are more like us than you are different and a true hippy would concentrate on how we are alike to each other and work from there
S

 

I'm working on it, I really am. And know that I'm not threatened by you (gays) in any way. I dated a girl that was bi for over a year and a half, the only woman that I ever truly loved in a relationship. Her views never affected the way I felt about her. I look at people by how they act towards me, and I got a lot of bad energy from this thread, along with miscommunication. HEAR ME OUT......I have love for everyone, till they show hate towards me.....reguardless of the way they live their lives.

Whether you feel bad, good, or nothing at all towards me, thank you for your thoughts.

PEACE

 

why do you feel you got bad energy from it?
words are powerful things, its because of the words you originally choose.
gay people have been and are hurt and repressed, so you need to be very careful about how you choose to address your feelings.

and a lot of straight men are threatened by gay men even if gay or bi women don't bother them
S

 

Really have a think about the way you approached this community today,
gay men and women have been beaten up, spat on, killed and numerous other things often directly followed by someone telling us they think we are living our lives wrong.
have you ever been repressed? has your lover died and you have been stopped from going to their funeral?
have you been seriously assaulted or someone you loved killed because the way they live their life doesn't fit into the way a person thinks they should live?
have you been spat on? have you had shit posted through your letter box? have you had a brick thrown through your window.
have you had your parents tell you they love you but at the same time tell you, you are abnormal and don't want to see you again?

is your sexuality illegal in some parts of the world, do you know that if you go there you could be hung?


You think you have experinced hate through this thread, have you been repressed?
if you have, if you really have then you'll have an idea of where we are coming from and why some people may just get a bit defensive when someone comes along and says we are living our lives wrong
S

 

Lifestyle? Choices?

Being gay is *not* a lifestyle or a choice.

 

No, I cannot relate to those things that you listed Samhain, and it brings pain to my heart to know that anyone can. Please know that I would never look down on anyone for what they believe, and the words that you read in my first few posts were not what I was trying to say. To tell you the truth, I don't even know what I was trying to say. I'm not bringing any judgement or hate to this thread, I hope you understand that.
Everyone that I ever looked up to growing up looks at homosexuality as a sin, which according to the bible it is. But it also says to hate the sin, and not the sinner. That is how I was raised. My family has had many gay friends, and even though they hated (for lack of better word) the sin they would still openly invite them into our lives and give them anything that they would give to any straight friend. I have love for all of man kind, but I can't shake the way I was raised. Reguardless of how hard I might try it will allways be in my subconsious. That subconsious tells me that homosexuality is a sin, but so are many...many things that I do in my own life. I would never even try to pretend to have the right to tell you that I am better than you. I'm sure many of you are a lot better of a person than me.

I know that most, if not all of you here do not have the same thoughts or beliefs as me. Diversity is what makes this world beautiful! Even if you think I am dead wrong, I hope that you can understand that I am only trying to find love for people that I once felt hate for. You might not get that from my words, but that is honestly what Im trying to do. Otherwise I would have left this thread alone a long time ago.

 

Erzebet is quite possibly the wisest woman on Hip Forums... she's right. Everyone has opinions on what's right and wrong, but you don't throw it out there when you know it could anger a lot of people. Then you're just asking for people to be angry at you.

Just because the Discovery Channel doesn't show homosexual animal relationships and textbooks don't talk about two animals of the same gender having sex doesn't mean they don't exist.

Like Samhain says, heterosexuals don't get harrassed, repressed or stigmatized like those of another sexuality. Having yet another person say our lives are wrong... imagine it. Imagine having to hide a relationship, not being able to tell anyone who you love? Not being able to have a legally valid marriage?

This forum is a pitiful example of hate and harrassment. Try living it.

 

Just having to think about this, and come up with replies to you guys is helping to open my eyes to the things that I needed to see. You might think that I should have posted this somewhere else, but if I did then I wouldn't have gotten such raw and powerful responses. And there also would have been a lot more hatred towards you from some of the people in the other forums, that is why I brought it here. Thank you for your time and I really am sorry for coming across as an asshole, though uintentional.

Peace and Love Brothers and Sisters

 

.
My, but when I first look at this post is seems to have caused a hail storm. 31 postings within 3 hours, is that some kind of record? Well, maybe since I've been coming to the gay hipforum.

I'm unsure if you have a right to judge or not, but yeah, folks do judge all the time. I find it hard to judge blacks, because I was never made to sit in the back of the bus. But when I meet an African American who was, I listen without judgment. In that regard, I might ask that if you meet a gay man who carried his friend to the emergency room after he was beaten with an aluminum baseball bat, as I have, then please listen without judgment.

There's a problem with the title 'homophobe', it's because it seems to imply fear. While the word bigot does not. However what is interesting about the word is how it is derived. In scientific terms the opposite of the suffix -phobe is -philic (Having a strong affinity or preference for; loving.) I am homophilic. The interesting didactic here is that '-phobe' (fear) is the opposite of '-philic' (love) which relates to my philosophy. The opposite of Love is not Hate, it is Fear. In that sense, homophobic is an accurate term. But in general parlance, I think that 'bigot" is more often what folks mean to convey, when they use the term homophobe.

You say you don't understand my choices. Yes, many people have been led to believe that homosexuality is a choice. There may have been a moment in your life where you considered homosexuality. Perhaps that's why you believe it is a choice. For many bi-sexual people, homosexuality may be a choice. But for gay people like me, there isn't a choice. And it doesn't surprise me that you can't understand. Why would you? If you are straight, how would you know? That's like asking someone from Japan to understand why the Swedes prefer pickled fish over raw. But you don't need to "understand," or even make the same choices, in order to accept.

a quick search of google for 'homosexuality animals' turned up this reference: National Geographic Article

Also an excellent article on Darwins theories being wrong, which strangely enough would put this researcher, Roughgarden, alongside the creationists, an odd place for a transsexual to be.
homosexuality ...(has)... been documented in over 450 different vertebrate species

I love when the author states that "having homosexual sex is the biological equivalent of apple pie" Indeed it is! Roughgarden's theories may be too complicated for this discussion, but this review is worth the read. "Roughgarden even argues that homosexuality is a defining feature of advanced animal communities "

Roughgarden says. "(homosexual activity among macaques is) like grooming, except we have lots of pleasure neurons in our genitals. When animals exhibit homosexual behavior, they are just using their genitals for a socially significant purpose."

Thank you for trusting this forum. It is a great place to air our opinions. And yes, when you do that you invite controversy. You're questions have touched a raw nerve with several folks, here. I would be the last one to say that's a bad thing.

Too true and right on. Listen up folks.

I agree with your 'individual perspective' theory. It sounds like you are working on dismantling the falsehoods you've been told. It takes courage to do that. I am truly sorry if some of the comments from this forum have been shrill.

Let me say at this point that I never chose to be gay. It was never my choice. I just am. And my sexual orientation is not a lifestyle. Clubbing and certain gay societies may be a lifestyle, which may seem gay, but not every GLBT person engages in those lifestyles. There is no 'gay' life style, just as there is no 'straight' lifestyle.

We have all been fed plenty of misinformation about alot of things. Global warming, or how to find happiness and love to mention a couple biggies. The misinformation about homosexuality is just one of those. Yes, folks here have studied that misinformation, and I commend you for coming here for answers. But these Questions are always like a re-opened wound. That isn't your fault for asking. I hope you can find the love to allow our aggressions to dissipate. I truly believe that in your heart you love all people, and your questions are a way for you to open your heart and keep it from closing.

Your job is not to heal and love the GLBT community. But I thank you for wanting to create a bridge. Perhaps you may like to connect with a PFLG group in your area. Parents, Families & Friends of Lesbians & Gays . I hate to defer you to a group outside of this gay forum, but you will find kindred folks there who have dealt with the same issues you are asking on.

For myself, I believe that the 'Hate the sin, love the sinner' stance is an affront. Too much focus is placed on gay folk, and less on the ten commandments and other sins listed in the Bible. I call being gay the 'Sin of Convenience.' It's like sins are a smorgusborg, like Old Country Buffet. You walk up and pick the sins you want to avoid. If you're straight, it's a 'Convenient' choice to pick homosexuality as a sin to avoid. It's 'Convenient' for ministers because about 90% of the congregation are straight, so they will pick homosexuality over a sin like adultery. It's duplicitous

I have to disagree, I believe that LetLovinTakeHold's question was honest. I hope that I was able to respond to it with my loving heart, something I often keep hidden.

your sig warms and intreages me, 'Let lovin take hold', and I am moved by your sincerity. You are a gift. Thank you for sharing your perspective with me.
.

 

Wow, hipunk....Thank you for your post. It brought a lot of things together for me.

In just the course of the night I have realized a lot of things. When I read back over the entire thread even I didn't realize the words that I was using. I now see why so many of you took offense. And I am truly sorry for offending you. But then again if I had looked into every word carefuly and not typed them, I wouldn't have seen the faults in thinking them.

I was allways led to believe that homosexuality is nothing but a choice. And even when I hear gays say that they were born gay I have had a hard time believing that. I still do. It may be because it was the way I was raised or any number of other reasons. Can you rule out the subconsious? Something that happened to you or something that you've seen when you were young that you can't remember? Triggering something inside of you to be different?.....go against the norm?.....to be more feminine? And by being more feminine society lables you gay, and you don't know what else to do? Can't all of this happen in you subconcious without you knowing it? And by 'you' I'm not pointing anyone out I just don't know any other word to use. Please don't take offense to that question I am just trying to understand.

 

It's not a matter of the subconsious, persay...

And even if being gay isn't something you're born with, it would still something that occurs and cannot be changed. It wouldn't be one thing that "triggers" it, more like your enviornment and how you react to it..something you cannot change because you are you.

And another thing - being gay doesn't make you feminine. I'm pretty masculine; probably most gays are. It's just broadcasted another way.

 

I was raised in the same worlld where being Gay would send a soul straight to hell , according to most Christians . But it always amazed me how many of the same Christians who thought this would pick and choose the sins they could overlook. Hate , hetero sex outside of marriage , adultry , coveting , these are all sins too , but no one runs around blasting people for having a million straight sex partners a month . At one time , being pregnant outside of marriage was a HORRIBLE sin , now the christians nearly ignore it. I guess being Gay is now the sin that Christians want to treat as they did Witchcraft.
The hetero community is safe to gather as many lovers in a month as they can handle.
Because , this is now normal.

 

if we are having a thread thats trying to educate and enlighten people, can we try and not shoot ourselves in the foot with sterotypes, I'm gay and I'm as fem as they come and not most gays are masculine, theres a wide range from fem to masculine in the gay and lesbian world just like there is in the straight world
S