I think Trump is right about NATO

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019.

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  1. onceburned

    onceburned Banned

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    onceburned, Jan 19, 2019
    #41
  3. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    That would go poorly for Russia.
     
    McFuddy, Jan 19, 2019
    #42
  5. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    But you pointed it out yourself, 29 in NATO, 42 in the ISAF

    Why didnt the extra 13 need to be signed up to NATO?

    Australia being one of them of course, usually one of the first to put their hand up if the US or UK need to bomb someone. Never been in NATO though.

    So whats the difference?
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #43
  7. lode

    lode Banned

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    Any nation isn't necessarily a perfectly rational actor.

    Except Canada.
     
    lode, Jan 19, 2019
    #44
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  9. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Heres some Aloe, because I know how much it burns some of you when Trump is right

    [​IMG]
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #45
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  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Schumer met Putin in Manhattan in 2003 at an opening of a Lukoil gas station. At the time Schumer was a Untied States Senator from the state of New York, and he still is.
    Lukoil had acquired Getty Oil and Mobil Oil in 2000, both American company. At the time Lukoil had 5,000 gas stations in more than 15 countries and they were rebranding stations in the U.S.
    This was a public meeting with reporters and everything that was said between them was recorded and released to the public. He didn't have at least five secure private meetings with no one else but a translator present...and on at least one occasion in Trump's case only a Russian translator. He didn't seize any translator's records and we know everything that was said...unlike Trump and Putin's five secret meetings.

    In 2001 U.S. Russia relations were at an all time high due to their support during the 9/11 attacks.
    He was in New York in 2003 to attend a U.N. meeting, meet with President Bush, and visit the New York Stock Exchange. He was not there at the invitation of Schumer.
    Russia had not interfered with our elections at the time and had not helped to get Schumer elected.
    So what's your point?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    MeAgain, Jan 19, 2019
    #46
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Because the other nations realized what what going on in Afghanistan and wanted to help the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1386.
    The U.N. asked for NATO support. Be aware the U.N. and NATO are not the same organization.

    And what's wrong with Australia supporting the U.S. and Britain? Australia is a U.N. member and is a strong been an ally of the U.S.
     
    MeAgain, Jan 19, 2019
    #47
  15. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    You still didnt answer the question. What the hell do you need NATO for.

    UNSC asks for some countries help, they dont have to be NATO members. So what is the use of NATO?
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #48
  17. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Wow a youtube video telling us Putin had a Krispy Kreme doughnut and like it.

    Damning evidence! Damning evidence I tell you!!!!
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #49
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Perhaps you should read my other posts on the subject.

    NATO is a much more effective military presence than the U.N.
    NATO members are obligated to come to each other's defense, U.N. members are not, many often ignore approved resolutions. In addition members of the U.N. Security Council often block or veto each others' resolutions.
    NATO decisions are binding on its members, the U.Ns. are not.
    NATO is a military organization, the U.N is not.
    NATO has a unified military command structure, the U.N. does not.
     
    MeAgain, Jan 19, 2019
    #50
  21. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Still doesnt answer the question.

    NATO is a much more effective military presence than the U.N - so was the Rwandan Patriotic Front

    NATO members are obligated to come to each other's defense - unless they dont want to, or get into a conflict with each other

    NATO has a unified military command structure, the U.N. does not - so does the KKK
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #51
  23. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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    Australia: we don't have a problem with that country but America is bombing it, so we will also bomb it with our 5 plane airforce. :p
     
    Irminsul, Jan 19, 2019
    #52
  25. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    What a ridiculous comparison.

    Also innaccurate by definition, since the KKK isn’t a military organization. It simply has a hierarchy, as do many groups. Does that make them comparable to NATO? No, of course not.

    Your arguement would be better served without the absurdities, though I’m not convinced it would stand up to scrutiny regardless.

    I mean it’s also true that any treaty can be broken, such as a NATO member “not feeling” like honoring it. That goes for any diplomatic arrangement. Are you arguing for doing away with all treaties?

    Do you honestly believe the RPF to be as effective a force as NATO?

    It seems like your whole basis here is “well let me find a facile similarity with NATO and a smaller, unpopular group.”
    That’s not a rational arguement though. It’s just silly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2019
    McFuddy, Jan 19, 2019
    #53
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  27. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Sure as hell better than the UN at the time


    And yes, the KKK has a unified military command structure, that assertion has nothing to do with how comparable to NATO they are
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #54
  29. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    But not as much as NATO, which was the point.
     
    McFuddy, Jan 19, 2019
    #55
  31. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    Ok. A non military civilian organization has a military command structure. Let’s assume that’s true... if it has nothing to do with it why did you bring it up?
     
    McFuddy, Jan 19, 2019
    #56
  33. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Not in Rwandas case, or Cambodia

    So 2/3 of the worst genocide events since Hitler, no NATO
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #57
  35. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    That was one of his selling points for why we need NATO, it has a military command structure. So does any kind of militia
     
    Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019
    #58
  37. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    I wonder if that’s because neither are within the purview of NATOs mission... which is to protect NATO members. Are Rwanda and Cambodia NATO members, or are you conflating the UN with NATO?
     
    McFuddy, Jan 19, 2019
    #59
  39. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    Yes, because it’s important within the context of many countries bound by treaty with regards to military defense . Isolating that statement and comparing it to the KKK is missing the point. Is the KKK bound to other groups by agreement and so a separate command structure was setup to govern the actions of those many different military forces from those groups?
     
    McFuddy, Jan 19, 2019
    #60
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