I think Trump is right about NATO

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts' started by Vanilla Gorilla, Jan 19, 2019.

  1. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    An EU army so no one else can leave the EU ;)
     
  2. tumbling.dice

    tumbling.dice Visitor

    The EU should have it's own military at least equal in strength to Russia's.
     
  3. McFuddy

    McFuddy Visitor

    That shouldn’t be a problem. The EU economy eclipses Russia’s by a ridiculous magnitude. Frankly Europe could clean Russia’s chronometer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2019
  4. NotMyRealName

    NotMyRealName Members

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    NATO=U.S. pays money to countries facilities that we hope someday may be used in case of a conflict. Its another pay in to get no real value back program that once upon a Time we had money to waste on.

    It sure kicked in and worked well in Crimea. And continues to step up for the Ukrainian conflict.

    So yeah it's another waste of U.S. $$.
     
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The North Atlantic Treaty Organization consists of 29 nations who have agree to respond to an attack on any one of them as an attack on themselves.
    NATO has protected national borders, protected innocent civilians, opposed dictators and terrorists, fought pirates, and established humanitarian aid.
    The only time NATO has responded to an attack on one of its members was when the United States was attacked on September 11.
    NATO may have its faults but any U.S. citizen who wants to abandon NATO now should be ashamed of themselves.

    Putin would like nothing better than to be able to send more of his unmarked "Little Green Men" into the Ukraine or Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Romania, or Bulgaria with no united front to challenge him.
    ____________________________________________
    NATO started a UN no fly zone in Bosnia in 1992 and a marine arms embargo in 1993. In 94 they shot down Bosnian Serb aircraft.
    In 94 they called in air strikes to protect the city of Goražde, a British NATO aircraft was shot down in this operation.
    In 95 bombing missions were carried out after the Srebrenica genocide which resulted in The massacre of 8,000 Bosniak mostly male civilians. Russia refused to condemn this action.
    These actions helped bring this war to an end.

    In 1999 NATO, at the request of the UN, began a bombing campaign and deployed the ACE Mobile Force against Slobodan Milošević in Kosovo. NATO then developed the international Kosco Force to keep peace and protect the one million refugees. It's still in operation.

    After September 11, 2001, remember September 11?, NATO Article 5 was invoked for the first and only time in NATO's history. NATO responded to an attack on the U.S. by considering it an attack on every NATO nation.
    Forty Two countries...count them, 42....came to the aid of the United States by forming the ISAF. This is the only time NATO has ever responded in this matter and it was to protect the United States. Germany and The Netherlands led the request for action and all 19 NATO ambassadors unanimously agreed.
    The ISAF secured Kabul from the Taliban, al Qaeda, and took over military operations in Afghanistan, and fought for the U.S.


    In 2004 NATO started training Iraqi security forces at the request of the Iraqi government.

    In 2003 an Article 4 NATO meeting was conduced at the request of Turkey due it's concerns over the Iraqi war threatening their country.
    Article 4 meetings were also held in 2012 and 15 after an unarmed Turkish F-4 reconnaissance jet was downed, mortars were fired into Turkey from Syria, and threats against Turkey were made by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

    In 2009 NATO deployed warships into the Gulf of Aden to protect against Somali pirates. Russia, China and South Korea also participated.

    In 2011 NATO began enforcing a no-fly zone over Libya to protect civilians. In the same year they instituted an arms embargo to stop weapons from entering the country. Some NATO nations did not participate while others contributed greatly. Denmark and Britain complained that they couldn't sustain their actions, but Gaddafi was killed and military actions ended.
    NATO then assisted with security.
     
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  6. Key word - *after* the genocide.
    A genocide that happened in a safe area under UN protection, and demonstrated how inefficient all these organizations and whatnot often are.
    Nearly 9000 civilians killed.

    But yeah, let's focus on Russia's refusal to condemn it.
     
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  7. NotMyRealName

    NotMyRealName Members

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  8. lode

    lode Banned

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    Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
    Asmodean, MeAgain and Tyrsonswood like this.
  9. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    yea. I'm concerned about this one...

    China warned the US to steer clear of Taiwan, but the US Navy says it could send an aircraft carrier through the strait if it wanted
    Faced With Tough Words From China, Taiwan Rallies Around Its Leader

    About NATO, I know very little. I just think it's premature to signal that we don't need the alliance of it all. I'm unready to say that we shouldn't be a party to it.
     
  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So your argument is that because the U.N. failed in this particular mission and asked for NATO assistance NATO and the U.N. should be disbanded?
    You base the entire history of the U.N. on one instance?

    And you feel we shouldn't be concerned that Russia supported the genocide by not condemning it, instead we should focus on the U.N.?
    You don't think Russia would like us to forget they support such actions and would be more than happy to see NATO disbanded?
     
  11. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    Don't give him ideas like that.:worried::worried::worried:
     
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  12. wilsjane

    wilsjane Nutty Professor HipForums Supporter

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    In reality, I think that Putin has become a weak man, struggling to retain control of his own military commanders and feeling forced to support actions such as the recent murders in the UK, although they were most likely done completely over his head.

    With an abysmal standard of living in his own country, coupled with poor education and harsh weather, his people could easily support another uprising.

    I can never understand why people in America were so against the idea of Trump having a friendly relationship with him. I often wonder if all the lies, fuss and fake news were generated by the Russian military, who felt threatened by an amicable relationship between Russia, North America and the rest of Europe.

    It is in countries like Russia at the moment, that revolutions and military uprisings are most prone to happening. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself.
     
  13. deleted

    deleted Visitor

    buzzfeed, cnn, vox, msnbc..

    [​IMG]
     
  14. deviate

    deviate Senior Member

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    He's a liberal from the northeast US. They don't think rationally only with emotions.
     
  15. NotMyRealName

    NotMyRealName Members

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    If you p
    If you pay attention to the graph it shows % of GDP paid by NATO countries. The goal set forth by the NATO agreement is 2% to be a member. We should be able to reduce down to 2% if everyone lived up to their end. So we are almost double the agreed to %.

    We are carrying much more of the load than most of the world. Why should we stay in it? We need to use that money elsewhere. We certainly aren't getting nearly twice the benefit.

    2% or get out. Instead of depending on the First National Bank of the stupid U.S. to carry the ones that want to be in NATO but don't want to pay up.
     
  16. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear Newbie

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    are you sure he's screaming russia? looks to me like he's screaming "go giants."
     
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  17. themnax

    themnax Senior Member

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    well he isn't always wrong about everything. as for nato, it sould have kicked the u.s. out more then a decade ago.
    and the u.n. needs a place for its headquarters that isn't dependent on ANY one nation.

    tump is the grand illusionist. the problem with him is his agenda, and yes, he does appear to have one, and it does appear to be to destroy amercia, democracy and the whole concept of consent of the governed. that last is the ball to keep your eye on. all his tantrums and outrages are to distract people and keep them distracted from it.
     
  18. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    NATO has a guideline that states each member nation should spend 2% of its GDP on its own military, not funding for NATO.
    There is no penalty for not meeting the guideline.

    Members don't pay each other for any defensive spending so no nation owes the U.S. anything, or vice versa.
    NATO headquarters, administration, and military budget is funded by an agreed upon formula based on the gross national income of each member nation. Having the largest GNP the U.S. pays 22.1% while Germany pays 14.8%.
    Each member is up to date and has meet its obligated payments.

    We carry most of the load because we have the largest GNP.

    The U.S. chooses on its own to spend more than 2% for its own military, other nations do not.
    If we don't like that all we have to do is reduce our own spending on our own military.

    I don't know how we're not getting our share of the benefit when we are the only nation in the world that has benefited from Article 5 of NATO, meaning we are the only nation in NATO that every other nation in NATO has defended by direct military action.
    Plus, as per Article 5, any indirect attack by a hostile nation such as North Korea, or China, or Russia, for example in an effort to get at the U.S. would result in every member meeting the attack in Europe, Asia, Africa and so on instead of waiting for a direct attack on the U.S.
    NATO is a buffer zone for the U.S.!!!!

    We're getting more than our money's worth.
     
  19. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Exactly
     
  20. lode

    lode Banned

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    In the past decade, Russia has invaded two sovereign nations, given military aid to genocidal dictators in a two more, directed multiple acts of cyber warfare against the US, murdered foreign journalists with biological weapons and radioactive agents...

    Russia threatened to wipe Ukraine from the map two days ago....

    ‘Loss of Ukraine’s statehood’, warns Russian official
     

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