I think I was raped

But I thought I was PC to have the same expectations of women and men?

 

If a man is drunk to the point that he is passed out, it would be very unlikely that a woman would be able to force sex on him- that is the difference. If a sober/semi-sober man had sex with a passed out man, it would be rape just the same. How could she have consented to sex while she was passed out? And as many people have said, the absence of the word "no" does not constitute a "yes" I think that it is pathetic that this woman came here looking for advice/ sympathy and she is being told that it is her fault. Since when did a passed out woman become a signal for consent? I hope that none of you who are passing such judgement on this woman for getting drunk ever have to experience something like this. It is one of the most heartwrenching experiences a woman can go through.

 

Hang on, no one says it's her fault. All we are saying is that what this guy did does not cross the line into rape. I am postulating that he may have also been too drunk to realise what he was doing was wrong. I would like to hear his side of the story first. Remember, even in jury trials the accused gets a fair say.

Still, no-one has answered the question, why are women not responsible for their actions but men are?

 

and then you, kiz, and another person said that though not entirely, it was her fault for getting "plastered."

i already gave you an answer, you just refuse to accept it because you don't agree with it. piper answered you too.

this isn't an issue of male/female, it's an issue of being passed out vs. being conscious and forcing yourself on someone.

 

And appologies for the debate piper, but she did post on a publicly-searchable internet forum, making it a public issue. Again, it is a case of people being responsible for their own actions.

Am I again disturbed by the attitude that the woman is always telling the truth without having any access to the accused persons view.

 

They were both drunk, from her initial post. We have no way of knowing this man's intent. Maybe he thought she was consenting. After all, she did get up, brush her teeth, and get back into bed.

 

I am not discouraging debate. I am discouraging people from telling this poor woman that this is her fault. And as SuperNova said, I believe that your question has been answered several times. How can a man assume that a woman is consenting when she is passed out in a bed? Stritctly going by what she said, she was already passed out in bed, and she woke up with him on her. How can that possibly be consent?!? The line of whether a woman in too intoxicated to consent is a fuzzy one, but in this case, it is blatantly obvious.

 

True but I doubt I'll ever see it in my Lifetime.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Anyone besides me taking note of all the assumptions/guesses in this Thread
in addition to only hearing part of one side of the Story.


Yall know there's three sides to every Story?

 

Where along the line did we lose the need for personal responsibility?

 

So what if she didn't "drink herself into unconsciousness" she went to SLEEP!! It is not okay to have sex someone while they are sleeping. And the few drinks that she may have had, would make it hard for her to wake right up. In what way is having sex an unconcious person NOT rape?

 

This was in no way her fault. At all. She didn't ask for it. BUT I think what everyone is trying to say is that if she wants to press charges, she may have difficulty using the word "rape". This particular situation is hard to classify because since people started blaming her, she hasn't responded. We don't really know how drunk and passed out she was at the time, or how trashed this guy was, or if she may have flirted and he got the wrong message or what. These things have to taken into account when discussing the legality of the situation. But we all must remember that no matter what she did or didn't do, she ending up with some guy on top of her having sex that she didn't ask for. Maybe she was too drunk to say no, but she was also too drunk to say yes. What that guy did was wrong and we can't blame her in any way. This guy may not have been violent, perverted, or even intentionally malicious, but he screwed up. He violated her and what she needs right now is comfort and people to care about her, not to tell her that this is her fault.

 

I think there were a few people on the first couple pages who said it was her fault, as in it was her fault entirely for getting drunk. I think what Kiz is saying is more like my point of view, that she did share *some* responsibility -I'm thinking she did return to the room after waking up and while no doubt she was far from sober, she must've been somewhat aware of what she was doing if she had & remembers the conversation with her friend. There's too many things left out too, like just about everything that happened before she went to sleep; what did she do and say then? Did she perhaps say or promise anything at that time that would make the guy think he would have consent or even be welcome to share her bed and more? Not saying she did, but not saying she didn't either -just that such information is not available to us.

I agree saying rape in any circumstances can be the woman's fault is demeaning, implying a woman is a sex object and if she isn't careful to keep herself covered up it's okay for men to do whatever they wish. However, I find that to say a woman has *no* responsibility *at all, ever* to keep herself safe is just as demeaning... it implies we (I am a woman too, and I've been raped once although it was a different situation) are not capable of being responsible for ourselves, too weak to carry any responsibility of our own, so obviously the *only* one capable of *any* action or responsibility must be the guy. Sure, men are physically stronger and are usually (not always) the aggressor in a rape case, and in a perfect society both men and women would be able to go everywhere, sleep everywhere, go dressed in any way we wanted or even go naked, leave our doors and property unlocked, etc, etc... but we also know this isn't a perfect society. If we as women ever want to be treated equally (or at least more equally, because we aren't identical and as I already said, men often do have a physical advantage over us) we should be willing to accept a part of the responsibility. A pretty small part in this case but -again depending on details I don't know from the posts in this thread- perhaps not none whatsoever.

 

If a woman wakes up with a man on top of her that is fucking her, it is rape. She cannot consent in her sleep, she cannot consent when passed out. Her going back to sleep doesn't make the rape go away. His being drunk doesn't excuse his attack, or demote it from rape to just wrong or being a jerk.

And drunk women are responsible for thier actions when drunk. A drunk woman that beats her kids will be punished, one that drinks and drives will be punished, etc...but what action on her part was equal to rape? Drinking? Sleeping? Not saying no in her sleep? Going back to sleep? Not going home? None of these deserves a man having unconsentual sex with her.

Rape victims respond in many ways; shock, denial, anger, fear, promiscuity, the list goes on. If she was in an unfamiliar place, and scared in denial or in fear of her situation it isn't an abnormal psychological reaction to want to get things back to normal as soon as possible, for example, going back to sleep.

Kiz, if you woke up with a drunk man inside you fucking you would you sympathize with him as much as you are this paticular guy mentioned in this thread? I sure as hell wouldn't.

You'll maybe say that you wouldn't put yourself in that situation, but being in that situation isn't a crime, it isn't even wrong. Women should be able to go out and have fun with their friends without worrying about what a man will do to them.

And my previous analogy was ment like this: You can't blame a rape victim for not protecting themselves enough from rape any more than you can blame a murder victim from not protecting himself enough from the murder.

 

It has nothing to do with man vs womyn. If a man woke up, after being drunk, to find someone, anyone, anally or orally raping him, it would STILL be rape.

AGAIN getting drunk is not a crime, commiting a crime when you ARE drunk doesn't resolve you of that crime. This girl did nothing "wrong" by getting drunk (so now people are at fault for not "keeping themselves safe?") but having sex with someone who has NOT given consent IS a crime.

It's law. If it were taken to a prosecuter, the rapist could be prosecuted. Of course whether he would be found guilty or not depends on how many people on jury believe that a drunk womyn's body is a free fuck toy, wiht no consequenses.

Your questions have been answered about 4 or more times a piece, are you going to keep asking them until you get the answer you want?

 

Yeah, but not being able to, or being too naive to "keep herself safe" still isn't a crime.

Are we to say that every person who rapes someone in a place where the victim "didn't keep herself safe" should be exonerated? In no other crime is the victim responsible for trying to prevent the crime.

Say a dude has a really nice car, and a Rolex, which he shows off a lot. One day, let's say he's drunk, someone beats the shit outta him, and takes his car and watch and wallet. Is he to be blamed for "not keeping himself safe?" I think few people who say so.

 

very true
I didn't think of things that way

I guess because something HAS happened to me, I tend to keep myself out of a lot of social situations to keep myself safe, because that's what I was told. It was my fault for being stupid. But when you put it that way, I guess i shouldn't have to live my life under a rock in fear. I don't know. Parties and things like that still scare me.

 

I understand just how you feel.

The idea that women should hold some responsibility for their rape is a bad one to nurture. All it does is undermine the crime and get's us no where in building a society where women don't have to take extra caution in their daily lives.

It is true, in this day and age it is smart to be extra careful to not get into a situation such as the person who started this thread was in. But not being smart enough to do that isn't a crime. Taking advantage of someone's nieveity or stupidity for your sexual pleasure is.


Autumn,

I know what you must feel like, especially after reading these posts. You may feel like you did something stupid, that you put yourself in the wrong situation. But please know that no matter what you did not deserve what happened to you, and it is not your fault. You are not at all responsible for what that man did to you. Yes, you could have not drank, you could have not spent the night, but should you have to live like that forever just because you are a woman? No. You have a right to live your life and be safe from being harmed by another person. That man violated that right, and it is in no way your fault.

I also understand being in that kind of shock and not knowing what to do so you don't do anything. But that doesn't demote the crime from rape to being your fault (like implied by some here)

I was in a situation just like you once. It took me a long time to stop blaming myself. Years. I never told anyone. But from that experience now I can say that the best thing for you to do is to not even start blaming yourself, realize, right from the beginning, that this was not your fault in any way and that this man did you wrong. You may not report it (and I can definitely understand why...you get reactions like this in a woman's forum what will they be like in court?) but at least don't live your life thinking you deserved or asked for what happened to you. But if you do report it you are certainly a more courageous woman than I, and I have much respect for the brave women that fight to put their aggressors behind bars. I wish I would have been one of them 6 years ago.

 

it's true. The reactions from some people here is exactly what I've been told all my life- especially the cops when I reported it. They went as far as telling me that I'm a slut and a liar and that I was being horrible to my family. Please, Autumn don't lose respect for yourself and know that the only one who could have stopped that from happening was him.

 

Even so it does not make it right for it to happen...even if both were very drunk if one person feel violated that's all there is to it.

 

"A long Time ago in a Galaxy far, far away..."


This question/answer permeates not only HF but Life in general.