I read this in yesterday's paper and it made me sick

hating for somebody for something they choose is acceptable. hating somebody for something their born with is mildly retarded.

 

exactly...

 

of course you're "able" to challenge their oppinion, and you should be open to letting them challenge yours. but there's a different between saying you hate someone for what makes them who they are (whatever it is) and saying "i don't feel that way. this is how i feel and why. why do you feel differently?". there's a difference between a debate and a fight.

you're hating a group of people for what they believe. they're hating a group of people for the way they were born. i think both are just as bad. and i know it doesn't matter, you know what i meant, but i'm going to clarify a little more just in case. you can't have grown up a christian without experiencing a christian life, being treated differently than say, an athiest. you can't have grown up black without experiencing a life different than a person of any other ethnicity, who all have their own experiences. you can't have grown up in a nazi family without experiencing a completely different reality than someone who grew up thinking everyone is equal. it doesn't matter if it's something you had before you were born physically, or if it's a lifestyle you were born into. you still had no control over it. hating someone for something they can't change is ridiculous. but hating someone when they can change seems lazy to me. because it is easier to just say "i hate them, i won't associate with them" than it is to try to understand why they are the way they are. nobody on this planet is so alien from you that you can't connect as human beings, no matter what you try. pretending there is is an excuse for not putting in the effort.

their views are part of who they are. exactly. it isn't a conscious decision they make every day when they wake up. it's second nature. the kid this thread was about was still really young. i doubt he started as a clean slate and decided of his own free will that there were people he just could not tolerate. and anyway, you don't know what happened in his life, you don't know what he has experienced. there are plenty of "nice" people who believe "not nice" things. there are plenty of nice fundie christians, nice republicans, nice hunters, nice homophobes, and i'm sure, nice nazis. you can be a nice person (i'm sure you are) and still hate nazis. anyone can be a nice person to everyone except a certain group.

the aggessive child at 6 is most likely the aggessive adult at 26.

they can. you know why they don't? because they don't think they're doing anything "wrong". all they feel is hate from everyone else, and that doesn't make them think "you know, i'm going to give up my beliefs and be like the people who hate me. they seem like a nice group." how do you think cults get members? they don't ring your doorbell and say "hello, how would you like to lose your identity, have your future kids raped and beaten, and worship a self obsessed man who thinks he is god?", they act nice. they treat you like a human, and they get you to trust them. when you trust someone you easily open up to their beliefs. not that you change who you are to match them, but you become more tolerant and accepting of whatever it is they choose to believe. if the people you hate are hateful towards you, will that inspire you to love them? what if the people you hate treat you with kindness and respect and love you unconditionally, just for being yourself? i don't think it shows approval. i think hating them would give them more justification to hate back.

see... you just proved my point. you can disagree with someone, you can ask them why they are they way they are, but it doesn't matter if they're different. they probably aren't going to change, and if you accept that, the chances they will are a lot better. i'm not saying we should try to change people. i think that's judgemental and egotistical, to believe your way is the only right way and people who believe otherwise haven't "seen the light". i'm saying if we treat them the way we want to be treated, change (love) can come naturally.

 

I just have difficulty not hating fascists, as they preach hate to so many

 

i know... but hating just doesn't make sense, so you have to force yourself to love people who hate. or you're a (tiny, but still significant) part of the problem.

<3

 

It's not like I hate them on every level of their existence. I hate them because they are sheepishly preaching their malicious bullshit and infecting generations to come. Sure, they can change, but that doesn't change who they are presently.

in this case, okay. but don't assume all nazis grew up in the same environment.

i need to get respect in order to give it out. they feel hate from everybody else because their views and lifestyle negatively effect more people than ANY individual stating they hate the nazi party. It's not like everybody comes together as a group and proclaims hate for nazis. But the nazis themselves sure do.

sure they treat you nice. but there are also blatant manipulations that come into play. people that get sucked into those type of things obviously have their guards down. they choose to become part of it eventually (in most cases). It's not like they're helpless and braindead.

I think it shows that you're backing down from your disapproval, actually. not the same thing as approval, though...

if you ACCEPT their views, we are bending to their will and their way of life. they preach unspeakable acts upon fellow human beings. how can you accept that when it's so wrong?

 

You're right, hating anyone doesn't make sense.

But why any logical person would hang out with a nazi/racist/etc. is beyond me.

 

"who you are presently" is not set in stone by any means. i don't understand how hating someone isn't hating all of them.

oh, i don't... i could never pretend to know what it feels like to be them, and i never will know, so i feel like i have no right to judge them.

i don't need respect to give respect... i think you should always give everyone the same amount of respect no matter what they've said or done in the past. people are constantly recreating themselves, who they are one minute doesn't have to be who they are in ten minutes. i'm not the same person i was ten minutes ago, i try not to be. i try to use every second to grow. and i don't think i'm that different from other people.

a lot of people get "sucked into those types of things" without realizing what's happening. by the time they "choose" to become part of the group, the group has earned their trust. they're not helpless and braindead. you're right. they just relate to the people in the group in a human way. i don't think cults start off intending to make people miserable, and i think the recruiters truly believe they're "saving" people.

i'll agree with that. i don't neccessarily "disapprove" of anything, i just do it differently. and try to accept the different ways others do it.

if i accept that someone thinks a certain way, i'm not changing anything about myself. i'm not accepting that wanting to hurt anyone is something i would ever do. but i'll acknowledge that the desire exists in some people, and no matter how much i tell them i hate them for it, it will only go away when they are ready. so i'll treat them with respect until they make different choices on their own time. because everyone is at a different level of their own personal evolution, which is perfect for them... until they move to the next one.

well... i like to be around people who are as different as possible. i think it helps me confirm who i am. i want to try to understand every way of thinking, because i don't believe "evil" just posseses some people and makes them lose their logic or ability to relate. i'm not asking anyone to seek out people they disagree with most and be their best friend (although i'd love to be able to do that). just... when you do encounter them... it would be wonderful if you could be polite...



"what you condemn will condemn you. what you judge you will one day become"

 

I actually laughed while reading that.

hahahahaha oh man. people are funny

 

i know, and i didn't imply that. that's not really the point.

i don't like to get caught up in words. i said i hated them for what they preach. if they choose to "repent", then it shows personal growth. to that i must give respect.

ha, i think we can judge them based on the fact they advocated the death of millions of people. but hey, that's just me. if they want to stand together and associate themselves as united, they are all to blame.

people aren't constantly recreating themselves, that's a bit of a generalization. if people change and grow out of the nazi mentality, that's one thing. but i feel we're getting a little off track here.

exactly. and they really have nobody to blame but themselves if they allow themselves to fall into the trap.

people will clash, it's just natural.

if anybody says something racist (or anything of the sort), i assume ignorance and stupidity. these aren't exactly people i would want to spend time with. it's as a simple as that. they aren't going to delve into their minds to understand those they are prejudice against. that's just the nature of it. should these people be respected? fuck no.

 

Ha, have you ever spoken with any racist/nazi etc. etc.?

They seem nice until you really get to know them. Then their true identity comes out. Becaue I really like to get to know people on a deep level, I'm not going to look past something as blantant as that.

 

i was just saying it as what i believe, not as an attack on anything you said. everything i say is just what i think, i'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or pick apart what anyone has said... i'm just telling you all how i feel and trying to understand how you feel. just so you know. please don't be offended or feel the need to defend yourself...

well, then, i love them despite what they preach. and i respect them because they have the ability to "repent", but i wouldn't try to make them.

you can judge them, as a whole, for belonging to a group which advocated death. but the way i think... i belong to a group which has advocated every single muder that has ever taken place. i'm a human. and obviously i don't personally advocate murder, but i'm not going to deny what i am. i don't know if this is making sense to you... but i'm trying.

people are constantly recreating themselves. a lot of us just recreate ourselves every second as who we were before, and procrastinate with change. but change is inevitable.

this is sort of off topic... it doesn't relate to the point i'm trying to make. and since i don't think either of us have been in a cult we don't really know anyway.

there's no such thing as a one sided fight. in order for there to be a "confrontation" both sides have to participate. otherwise, it's just one person sending out love and one person sending out hate.

i have really racist friends, and they're definately not ignorant or stupid. they're wonderful and kind people who for some reason just have this hate in them. and when i talk to them about it, they say they know it's not good and they wish they could stop but they can't help it. they're not one dimensional hate machines, their prejudice isn't all there is to them. i think they definately should be respected.

 

yep. i have. quite a few. and i don't see flaws as being someone's "true identity"... there's a lot more to a person than what's "wrong" with them. i do look past it.

 

Oh, my God, how awful. I can't believe people still commit heinous crimes like this in this day and age.

 

ye know... racism is as absurd as accepting other people the way they are... who the hek are we to say which is better? theres no elemental answer to this... we all construct our own thoughts depending on the lives we've led, and of course we all live different lives and situations... people all over the world man, you're just 1 in a trillion... , im just one in a trillion. a trillion minds is a lot ... no one is crazy, no one is sick in the mind... theres just the illusion of being ill

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

 

I do look past most people's flaws. I see flaws as negative personality traits, such as laziness, procrastinating, etc. I don't see prejudiced opinions as a personality flaw. To me, and most other people, it's a sign of ignorance and stupidity. Why should I accept someone who hates me for things that are out of my control...?

They're the person with the problem. I just ignore them.

Maybe I'm just a cynical bastard, but I have a hard time believing that "all they need is love".

 

okay. we see things differently. that's fine. you can keep hating. i'll keep loving. i believe there is some of me in every person and some of every person in me, but i know lots of people just can't believe that... sometimes it's really hard to make connections, and i won't hold it against you if you just can't. do what you think is best . we all do. and i'll love you for it.

<3 peace

 

yay i think i'm starting to believe this stuff that the papers are saying about this situation in Belgium...at first i thought it happens there but not a lot...i just thought the papers were just trying to sell itself "yeah i know the story is serious" but my sis and her group of friends recently went there and got harassed by a gang *what is the world coming too* shakes head.

Sorry I really should use punctuation

 

How awful!!!!!Make3s me want to throw up!