I love Lucifer.

I sometimes ponder what would, indeed, occur, if a pure element were introduced into this world. By the glare of its light, would the darkness seem that much darker? All that is denied in Christ that cannot be denied by sinners such as we. Would the purity eat us up until we were nothing left but hobbled demons ourselves?

 

I read your posts. Interesting.
However, deception is something other than the truth. What is not truth is not real. To not acknowledge deception is not acknowledging that is not real. How can truth acknowledge something that is not there.
The trouble with all this is our thoughts. The mind has deceived itself as being real by creating a false identity, known as the ego, to make sense of itself. From this self-deception, sitting in the censorship chair of our perceptions, everything perceived becomes deceptive and unreal. The world we walk through is mind, and it's a decieved one at that. I struggle with it daily just to get snippets of the greater reality; and it is not of this realm. This realm we calll reality is so dense, it is hard to realize the finer realms that manipulate this one. Our mind is the battleground of other consciousness.

The deception is like watching TV. At the time of watching it we think we are present with what we are watching. It is not until we stop watching do we realize we are in our lounge room looking at a TV set. The trouble with us is that our human TV is the mind and it stays on, even while sleeping. We are dreaming a dream we chose to call reality.

 

The important question then is, where is the deception on unconditional love? Does God represent unconditional love? Or are there conditions? Did God deceive us, or is it man deceiving himself through a book that he constructed?


There is a similarity in our ontologies. I too believe that the world we walk through is mind. And that physicality is more phenomena than substance. But I disagree that the human mind or the individual self is not true. I would agree that at some deepest level, all of mind is the same. But just as the universe represents the myriad of things, so is mind individuated into god and the myriad of things.

When I use the term ego, I use it only per a Jungian defninition---simply a tool to filter out all nonessential information and other phenomena with the express purpose of maintaining a consistent personality. It therefore keeps us centered in physical reality. The reason we do not see beyond these physical dimensions, except little hints and snippets, is because we are here to experience life. The memories we gain here, the pain, the happiness, the problems gains, losses and achievements give our life meaning here and in the beyond. I am who I am. I may have been a number of people through other lives, but they are still me, as I am me. And while physicality---material reality---is trapped in the present, I, as mind transcend that physicality, transcend the present.

To assert that our ego deceives us in creating a false sense of self is problematic, because we are god's creation, and, if I understand the implications of what you are saying correctly---actually God itself---but if the individual self is a deception then this is to say that God has deceived us. This is because God has created the mechanism by which we are deceived.

Actually, I don't see any other implication. If mind is a product of physicality, then we are not wandering in a world of mind, and God is still at fault in the deception.

In my ontology the deception that this is all of life here in the physical is more of our own construct---though the same can be said of God as deceiver. But the illusion is temporary and serves the purpose of enabling us to experience the physical to the fullest. It is not a deception in a negative sense, but simply allows us to ride this ride.

 

Are you saying that God just turns a blind eye...like, God cannot even comprehend when deception occurs? That is terrible news for the people of this world who are lied to constantly and whose lives sometimes hinge on deception. Surely it wasn't true that the Jews were evil, but that lie sure seemed real to them in the gas chambers I bet.

 

God represents the greater truth, which in itself is unconditional, because truth is complete and needs nothing. Conditionality comes from need. Truth sets us free from conditionality because it is doubtless, consistant, reliable, available, and undemanding. It is exactly the same qualities as unconditional love. Only fear creates conditionality, and only the ego-mind creates unfounded fears.

Unfounded fears are deceptions of the truth. Even instinctual fears can instantly develope unfounded fears. Such as, about to be hit by a car. If the person was in a mental state of truth, they would instantly know what to do to avoid or minimize the impact. But if unaware of the truth (doubtlessness), fear keeps one in doubt, and at times can be paralysing (a.k.a. fear of fear). In this regard, it is not God/Truth that deceives.

The ego-mind is the greater part of self-will. The deception is thinking we are in control of self-will, when in fact we are basically living a life of Self-denial. The Self is the spirit of truth within us. It is our reference point of recognizing the truth when we hear it. However, our ego fears the truth, incase its own truth of invalidity gets exposed. So, anything that may threaten the self-fabricated story of validity instantly gets denied, and replaced with one of a plethora of workable cover-stories. Snippets of truth can be discovered through introspection of ones own denials. For one has to know what to deny (the truth) before they can deny it. Everybody does recognize the truth, but in most cases for only a micro-second (a snippet). And these snippets tell me that denial is ramped in me and in other human beings.

Evil has no truth, or unconditional love, and are without self-sustaining source of energy as truth has/is. Evil has to feed itself somehow, but cannot feed of truth, for itself is not true. Truth has no place to go within evil. But we do have a place already within us at birth - the spirit of truth (innocence). Evil feeds of wasted energy bled by human fears. These fears squeeze (tensions) the energy out of us. Fear transforms that energy through falsehood. Evil therefore relies on us to stay deceived so it to can sustain itself by our fears. Evil is fear feeding fear to feed of fear (dog returning to it vomit).

We are not here for the self (ego-self) but for the truth (Self/Being) within us. This truth, or spirit of truth, is unconditional and will not interfere with the human life unless invited to do so. However, the invitation needs to be unconditional too. For us to do that requires use to let go of self-impotance, which the ego fears the most. It takes trust (faith) in that the snippets of truth are worth sacrificing self-importance (humbleness) of ego-self. That is why the humble and meek will inherit the Greater Reality.

As a result of allowing the spirit of truth to take up the space from the false-self, the human body becomes the vehicle of unconditional love. In essense, it becomes a witness to others that God/Truth exists in a person. That it's expression is unconditional love. It's radiance can be recognised by anybody who listens to their own spirit of truth. This radiance is the exact opposite of imploding tension of fear and evil. So, in affect, each of us has a choice to Be, or not to Be. That is the true purpose of free-will. And it is done unconditionally. Yet most people ask why God does not do this or that, which would become conditional.

 

THIS cannot be overstated! Very well-said.

 

All I hear is blah, blah, blahbiddy blah blah blah. No offense. I'm so tired of people talking about the human condition. All these empty words fall on deaf ears.

 

“People who study evil, are studied by evil”

 

And sometimes you just fall into the lap of evil by no fault of your own and it tears you to shreds.

 

What enemy would not be threatened by those who can reveal and cause their downfall.

 

Ok, so how does the Bible fit into this then? Because we still haven't resolved the issue of unconditional love in terms of our existential experience and salvation----we are created in such a way that the ego-self, using your definitions, naturally drives a sense of self-importance. The definition of the verb, to deceive, is to persuade someone that something that is false or untrue is true. As I see it, everything you say is fine, unless the same conditions that are taught in Matthew and other scriptures apply to salvation. For example, in your ontology, if the true self is always worthy of a return to God, regardless of the unfounded fears, or actions or inactions of the false self, then there is no problem. There is a problem if the unfounded fears, or actions or inactions of the false self places one in hell, or even if the false self is seperated and ends up in hell---then there is a problem, because the need (condition) is created from deceit that ultimately is a part of God's creation. We were still designed in such a manner as to fall victim to our own self-importance or even an evil that is potentially more powerful than us.

 

Something, let's say love, cannot be unconditional in itself, if there are conditions to receive that unconditional love.

 

True.

 

Do you really see evil as some kind of entity or it coming from an entity like Satan? Or is this a figure of speech?

 

We are not here for the self. The self is needy and conditional. Any perception using self as a reference will always seem conditional, even when referring to God/Truth. Using self as a reference-point easily transfers that reference to God. Therefore we see God as being conditional as our self. We imagine God as a human being, instead of Spirit (the image of God).

Jesus had a lot of trouble getting his message across because his reference point was spirit and not self. Spirit is not self. Spirit is inherently from Truth, were self is a fabricated story about the human organism it occupies. So, the real Self, or Being, is from God/Truth, the very essence of life. Any applied conditionality to it was initiated by the self by previous agreements of what self regards to be true (beliefs). Any untruths/conditions were made by self, and none of them were from God, for God is not needy.

The bible is written by humans, inspired by what they considered to be Truth/God. Personally, I see the bible full of stories which cover the real truth. Sure there are lots of snippets, but lots of religious people miss them and get all caught up in a story instead. You can tell, for they speak with much fear in their hearts. The only words that I treasure as being true are those said by Jesus.

I believe the old saying; Mind, Body, and Soul, ought to be read as Body, Mind, and Soul. For me, the mind mediates between body and soul. There is the Body-mind, and the Soul-mind. Body-mind is essentially governed by ego. Soul-mind is essentially governed by Truth. The Mind is the stage for both parties. As long as self hogs the stage, truth being unconditional, waits in the background. As soon as we surrender self, the vacancy on the stage invites truth to step forward and present itself. This is a rare happening for most people. That is why they don't understand why God/Truth does not just step in and fixes things up.

Both the body and soul is effected by the condition of the mind, especially by what the mind harbours to be true (beliefs). Beliefs are agreements made by the mind as to what is true. If most of those beliefs are false-truths, then the soul is tarnished be these falsehoods. What is happening here is that the spirit of truth, a deposit of God within us, has been tarnished by self. God allows that to happen because God/Truth is unconditional. What this means is that it is self which sabotages the soul, and not God.

God is giving us (body-mind-soul) a chance to focus on soul-mind to experience the essence of God. If we don't, that was our choice. This conversation, in itself, is a discussion of the existence of Truth/God. It is yet another chance to determine what is true, and recover some truth that we have lost beforehand.

Purpose of all this? Not totally sure and may never know. But I am a strong believer that our purpose is to surrender body-mind so soul-mind can express the essence of God on Earth. At the moment, most humans express the body-mind, the essence of evil, on Earth. Greed and need dominates this place.

 

Human history has many recordings of entities, or illusions, of what we consider to be evil. And also what we consider to be of good spirit. There are other realms within our preceived reality. There are many more dimensions than the three we are familar with. The finer realms (other dimensionality), that people have experienced, are where spirits (good, bad, or indifferent) reside. They play a role in our perceived life if we like it or not. The reason being is that we have a body, but we are not of the body. That is, our finer Self/Being uses this body as a vehicle. Other finer spirits, other than Being, who are without a body, wish to have a boby (vehicle) too, so it can express itself here on Earth. Some call this being possessed.

There is truth in the saying that we are dealing with powers and principalities.

 

Ok---I think you are going where I thought you were going---along the lines of Christian mysticism and Eastern beliefs. Outside of how I see the self, I think we are aligned in our beliefs then. In fact my philosophy supports such beliefs, except that it puts so much significance on the individual.