i just broke through

Discussion in 'DMT' started by L.ifes S.ubliminal D.ream, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    I actually find that quite phenomenal especially when we consider the range of emotions that a b flat can evoke, and even more so if I had never heard a b flat for the first 20 years of my life.

    At this point in time the rigid scientific explanations only go so far explaining the DMT experience, its just as easy an explanation as claiming these hallucinated aliens make gifts for you or have the key to the afterlife. The only scientific hypothesis posited thus far besides my own in this thread was that DMT has no function, which seems very dubious considering how widespread it is. I don't think people should get wrapped up in the DMT world but I also don't believe they should deny their experiences.
     
  2. HermanDaVermin

    HermanDaVermin Banned

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    You really are a very contrary personality. You seem to take issue to one degree or another with everyone.

    As to the quoted post, I guess you didn't read the last couple of sentences.
    Far too often people jump to extraordinary and "mystical" explanations for phenomena before even considering the possible mundane bio-chemical or natural process as the source of such phenomena. Then some become so invested in these explanations as too deny the scientific facts when they become known.
    If you want an example of that just consider the Catholic church, or any major religion for that matter. Hell, Zeus used to cast lightning bolts from the sky, or Thor created thunder with his hammer.

    Same type of bullshit applies and is currently "in vogue" in the world of psychedelics.

    AGAIN, that is not to say that there does not exist a spiritual realm and maybe certain substances do provide some form of access to that realm. But lets not make that the go-to default explanation as far too many people do.:afro:
     
  3. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    Because both sides of this argument tend towards very fundamentalist viewpoints. I'm trying to provoke conversation and ideas, I have gave some ideas as well. This topic comes up like almost monthly in the DMT section and every single time it goes absolutely nowhere. I am open to all possibilities at this point, I'm surprised that even if you have not had a DMT breakthrough experience that experienced LSD or mushrooms users can't entertain the mystical explanations given.

    Until those facts are known and explanations are provided that account for the experience itself, mystical explanations are going to continue to be generated. Even if we say DMT effects Serotonin at the 5ht2a neurotransmitter site that means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in regards to the felt experience of the individual when people are talking about contacting Aliens and other dimensions.
     
  4. Ancient One

    Ancient One Member

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    You need an awful lot of attention. How fortunate that we have you here to make sure us slower people are pressed to think and consider items of great and enduring interest to you.

    DMT effects on billions of sequenced, successive, and cascaded neurochemical receptor sites throughout the brain and body, directly and indirectly, in different parts of the brain evolved for different purposes and uses, has EVERYTHING to do with what you see, hear, smell, feel, taste, AND perceive and interpret on successively higher levels. Your "perceived experience" and your "felt experience" are equally under the scrambling effects of DMT as your lower functions, which are as erroneously reporting "Reality" to higher processing functions. Perception doesnt make something real or true. Feeling doesnt make something real or true. Feeling spiritual is a biochemical function. Perceiving the spiritual is a biochemical function. The mechanics of these functions are influenced by psychedelics, making you scared when there is nothing to be scared about. Giving you a sense of awe just because the biological mechanism of "awe" is being triggered artificially. Giving you a sense of "great importance", just because the biomechanical function of having a sense of "great importance" is being artificially stimulated. Having a sense of belief, when the biochemical-mechanical function responsible for "belief" is artificially triggered. ETC. ETC. ETC. All feelings, perceptions, opinions, thoughts, memories and EVERYTHING ELSE in the brain are products of set, and learned pathways in the brain which can chemically be artificially mixed, matched, cross-circuited, emphasized, deemphasized, stressed or otherwise distorted by ingested substances. Is seeing god, and Feeling like you saw god the same thing? How about if you FEEL like you saw god, while under the influence? You feel that is reliable? You feel that is valid? Just like when you are DUI, you are not considered capable of making rational, functionally reliable decisions, regardless of how you feel. Right? Are the delusions of Schizophrenics valid because they believe they are? Because they really, really feel they are? Are your beliefs valid because you really really want them to be true?

    Ultimately this religious vs. science thing has been going on a long time, and the argument is a waste of time. Left will never change to the right. And persons of balance simply accept each other with love and tolerance.

    Believe what you want to, believe what works for you, believe what makes you happy, mix and match if you wish. Its an individual choice which is made by the individual; not by those around them....
     
  5. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    ...and I believe that was my first response to the op after he was inquiring about his experience!
     
  6. Ancient One

    Ancient One Member

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    Youre not worth talking to. Your only interest is in needling people. No doubt this replaces your constant lack of self-worth; if youre not able to make a cogent argument from a recognizable and stable position, you are a chaotic force and are serving no useful purpose here. Not to the DMT forum anyway. I have more respect for Passionate Chemist who does have my respect for his consistency and passion, regardless of whether I agree with him or not. I think your energies would be better spent on one of the other 500 free speech forums available here. Good luck to you.
     
  7. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    Showing that balanced love and tolerance there eh?
     
  8. HermanDaVermin

    HermanDaVermin Banned

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    ^^^What he said^^^

    and along the same thought, consider this before you jump to the "mystical" & "other than me" explanations.

    http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html?pg=1&topic=&topic_set=

    http://www.shaktitechnology.com/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YPOTaUyvA0"]YouTube - Dr. Persinger's God Helmet
     
  9. L.ifes S.ubliminal D.ream

    L.ifes S.ubliminal D.ream Member

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    :argue: :argue: :argue:
     
  10. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_-txbHNyOY"]Awesome link Herm. There has been a long tradition of finding the biological basis for supernatural beliefs.
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    In the same vain, mundane is hardly an adequate description of the miraculous qualities of consciousness riding on those chemo electric phenomena.
     
  12. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

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    What exactly are you saying dope, that I'm just a pile of quantum probabalistic energy/particle approximations/conglomerates that has achieved self-awareness in a hostile universe full of cosmic forces of creation and destruction, able to enter states of wild bliss and beautific vistas of experience by metabolizing simple organic molecules in my synapses? Is that what you're saying? Where's the beauty in that maaaaaaaan :dizzy2: :coffee:

     
  13. PassionateChemist

    PassionateChemist Member

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    If someone feels like an experience had spiritual or mystical feeling to it, and for them it felt real, who are we to say it wasn't real? :3 Sure it was just chemicals doing stuff in your head, but in the end your whole conscious is evoked by chemicals in your head. So if a compound changes something about that, it changes THEIR world. And not ours.
    I have no problem AT ALL if someone is religious or gives spiritual meaning to an experience. Just don't try and make the rest believe so hard in it aswell.

    What I'm trying to say is: if someone had a spiritual experience(invoked by a drug or not), it changed them, so an 'outsider' cannot dismiss that as 'just chemistry doing what it does'. In the end, everything's chemistry.
     
  14. HermanDaVermin

    HermanDaVermin Banned

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    I guess the context didn't clearly convey that my use of the word "mundane" concerning the bio-chemical process' that give rise to sensation and awareness was in juxtaposition to the "supernatural" explanations often offered. Many who offer such supernatural intervention as the source of their experience also consider that a purely physiological explanation couldn't possibly account for spiritual experiences because, well it's just a normal daily occurrence, mundane so to speak.
    That same mentality is what lends strength to myths about LSD's physical risks;

    "It's effects are so fantastic that it must be doing some type of harm."

    "My experience was so spiritual and profound that it must have originated from outside of myself and couldn't possibly be the result of bio-chemical process's."

    The same type of jumping to an assumption as fact mainly due to a lack of empirical evidence is at play in both cases.

    As for me, I am astounded and constantly mesmerized by the miracle of all of everything, including how simple electrical impulses and chemical reactions can give rise to the infinite sensory and perceptual possibilities. I fear that far too often the psychedelic user can appreciate the effects of a Substance on their five senses, but fail to recognize that the psychedelic are effecting many other facets of cognition and awareness than just what gets conveyed through sight, sound, taste and touch.
     
  15. Ancient One

    Ancient One Member

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    Once an outsider brings his chemistry into my chemistry, I can dismiss his experience as just chemistry, if I so desire. His chemistry does not supersede my chemistry. If a missionary knocks on my door, to offer his opinions on spirituality, I have every right to point out to him his deficiencies and fallacies. It is my door, my chemistry. He does not have an intrinsic right to speak and hold all others silent. His experience is valid for him, his church, his home. Once in the public realm, his rights are equal to all others, who may share their own experience in challenge...
     
  16. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    I agree with that. There seems to be a certain sort of uncertainity or fear I've noticed within many of the psychedelic users I talk with online that is something like "Oh if we give these experiences too much weight than they'll get steeped in a sort of religous context." (That's my perception anyways) In my experience doubtful, places like The Temple of Inner Light and the Santo Daime church already exist and just because I've seen aliens on DMT and experienced the more real than real phenomena with it, doesn't mean I have a desire to go join one of these churches, which really has a bunch of underlying Christian/Catholic rhetoric or I don't desire to join any church as of now really.

    I certainly acknowledge the neurological component to psychedelics but I also acknowledge the felt perception of the experience too. It's the dynamic and interplay of it that really amazes me. Eventhough it's fleeting and I can't maintain it, I now can relate with someone who naturally experiences synasthesia because of LSD. Most people who have natural synasthesia claim that it is a significant bonus and aids with things such as playing music among other things. Perhaps in the future they will be able to tinker and noodle around with people's chemistry and give them persistent synesthesia if they want it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KApieSGlyBk"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KApieSGlyBk

    Because of DMT, I don't dismiss people who have alien encounters as simple crack pots like I used to and it's interesting to think that people who have alien encounters or experiencing God may be having two very similar neurological conditions going on.
     
  17. L.ifes S.ubliminal D.ream

    L.ifes S.ubliminal D.ream Member

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    I just took 4 hits, broke through i guess. This is weird though, its like all my bad psychedelic experiences in my life were trying to keep me from reaching that moment of understanding and i got to it. The entities were explaining that to me, its like my parents were there too (writer, you might remember my "parents in my head" phenomena) and they were witnessing what just happened to me, talking about what they could have done to prevent this. They made it feel like since I reached that moment I failed completely somehow and I would be doomed to hell or something of that nature. When they were telling it to me I wanted to throw away all my DMT and quit psychs forever. I'm coming down now trying to understand exactly what happened but they made it very clear that I severely messed up. Can any of you guys make sense of this? I know I'm supposed to think its just my own mind fucking with me but that seemed very real and made me feel like I seriously fucked up my life.
     
  18. Tokapelli

    Tokapelli Member

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    how bout we all just admit that we exist in an ocean of chaos and nobody has any idea what is going on! These are all good theorys and stuff, but really, you have to be very nieve to think you have any idea of whats really going on.

    Theres alot of debate on wether the experience is real or not, thats rediculous. Mr Writer (no disrespect to the best read phsychedelic guru on the forum or anything) says the entities are not real because they only exist when you trip, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT!? thats like saying the food is only in the fridge when you open the door, the TV show is only on if you are watching it!? WTF kindof logic is that? You said that dreams arent real because your in the same place when you wake up as when you went to bed, same with dmt, but that doesnt really mean anything to me. Because i know that what i see when i wake up in the morning or when i come down from a trip is only probably about a tenth of one percent of reality.

    Face it, you dont know whats real and whats not. Do you try to pass it off as something that doesnt really exist in an attempt to comfort yourself? Dont worry ego, its not real, its not real.
     
  19. z3r0face

    z3r0face Member

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    [​IMG]

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr7IxQeXr7g"]YouTube - A: This Computer Could Defeat You at 'Jeopardy!' Q: What is Watson?


    At least everything that we can logically explain at this point with our means of awareness. I would actually call it energy though.
     
  20. Mr.Writer

    Mr.Writer Senior Member

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    Who said that? I'm talking about the miracle of organic life (your brain) having a meaningful introspective journey through the miracle of consciousness (your mind/self). have you considered that what you learned was unabashed truth?
     

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