I Have Just Joined THE BREXIT PARTY!

You have to read between the lines.

You are right, borders and checks arent really a big deal

Its about : out of the EU, Northern Ireland is back under solely British command

Good friday agreement never really solved the situation just postponed it


The DUP’s support for Soldier F protests shows how extreme it is | Roy Greenslade


Leave or Remain, the Northern Ireland thing will eventually have to be resolved somehow


Scotland too, most parts of scotland voted to remain, but were they actually voting in relation to the EU, or did they actually vote that way because they trust the EU more than they trust England

 

Drift

I suppose you could say the inherent problem is colonialism.

Large areas of the north were colonised by English and Scottish Protestants on land confiscated from the Irish back in the 16th and 17th century. That is why there is a (mainly Protestant) Northern Ireland who wanted to remain part of the UK and a (mainly Catholic) Republic of Ireland that gained its independence.

It has to be remembered that there are those on the Unionists side that would fight to keep the partition, there was the UDF the Ulster Defence Force that was just as brutal as the IRA.

Wow well literally millions of words have been written on the history of Irish/English relations – did other countries in the British (English) empire have a valid complaint about been ruled by foreigners was it worth fighting for? Was been subjected to an unnecessary famine enough reason to dislike that rule?

You might say that is just history – but many of the things said by leavers are based on just such history, as all the war like rhetoric reveals – think of the poster put out by leave UK ‘We didn’t win two world wars to be pushed around by a Kraut’

The Irish fought and gained there independence only back in 1921.

*

Northern Ireland voted to remain so the most rational thing to do is have a border down the middle of the Irish sea with NI remaining in the EU customs and regulatory region (with option in future to vote to join with Eire) then the rest of the UK could have whatever new system they wanted and all the custom posts etc would be in English welsh and Scottish ports.

That was the EU’s proposal and it was rejected because the right wing DUP was propping up the Tories (and still are).

 

Yes I should know more about Ireland really. I did it for history GCSE but school kind of killed my interest in many things.

 

That can be a problem with schools when education is about teaching to the exam rather than for knowledge then it often kills a subject cold.

Actually it was fun trying to put across the main points in as few words as possible.

If you have any other history questions I’d be happy to help

 

We do not need rational plans JUST LEAVE. That is what the lying politicians said that they would support the referendum.

The cheating wimpy remain politicians in Westminster voted not to leave with no deal. They voted to force Boris to beg the EU for an extension.

This left the UK with a piss poor bargaining position against the EU. Now we have an unknown deadline thanks to the lying leavers in Westminster.

I suspect the leavers will again try to stall Brexit.

The EU will be MUCH worse off when we leave the EU. We will get more milk and produce from the UK and Ireland. That will screw up the French exporters. Germany will be BEGGING for a deal for their manufacturing industries.
A little short term pain will the well worth the long term gain.

As Farage says Britain will not be the last to leave the EU.

I have said before the EU was fine with open borders and free trade but if we stay in the EU we will be governed bay a cancerous bureaucracy that cannot wait until the Royal Navy, Air force and army is under EU (German) control.

Britain fought two wars in the last century to stay free of the Germans. Now the bastard politician want to trust them and get into bed with them.

The mind boggles.

I urge you all to seriously consider all this.

 

The british system is abused and has worked against the remainers

Correction, The british system HAS abused AND HAS WORKED AGAINST THE LEAVERS.

 

That is just insane it’s like jumping out of a plane at 20,000 feet without a parachute and only then thinking that you will now need a parachute.

And many didn’t vote to leave without a deal they were told they were going to get a better deal and were expecting a deal not jumping out of a plane at 20,000 feet without a parachute.

 

A study has been made on what the consequences of a hard Brexit would likely have on each EU countries GDP.

The country that loses the most in terms of GDP, around 1%, is Ireland. This is expected given its geographic proximity, common language and historical ties with the UK. The second largest decline in GDP from a no-deal Brexit is observed for Cyprus, at around 0.2% of its GDP. This result is surprising to some extent given the distance of Cyprus from the UK. But it could be explained by common institutions (Cyprus was a colony of the UK until 1960) as well as the close historical and business ties between the two islands.

After Ireland and Cyprus, the vast majority of EU countries will face a decline of their GDP from 0.18% (Spain) to just below 0.1% (Croatia). And the last group of EU countries, from Central and Eastern Europe, will have among the lowest decline in GDP. Hungary with 0.08% and Austria with 0.03% of GDP.

It is interesting to note that the four biggest EU27 countries will face a small drop in their GDP in the case of a No Deal Brexit scenario. Germany faces a 0.16% drop; France, 0.17%; Italy, 0.14%, and Spain, 0.18%.

Hence, the overall effect on the EU27 will be a fairly small decline in their combined GDP – a weighted average of 0.17%.

In comparison, we find that a no-deal Brexit will reduce the UK’s GDP by a staggering 5.8% of GDP.

These results can easily be understood when we consider the fact that each individual EU country trades much more with the rest of the EU as a whole than just the UK.

Agelos Delis - Lecturer in Economics, Aston University

Karen Jackson -Senior Lecturer in Economics, University of Westminster

Oleksandr Shepotylo - Lecturer in Economics, Aston University

 

No deal and milk

Around 80% of all milk produced in UK is consumed domestically, producing enough for the home market with some left over, some going to export in processed form (like cheese). The UK mainly exports milk from Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland for further processing. Export tariffs would lower the competiveness of these exports across the Irish border, leading to reduced exports which could affect prices. Tariffs on cheese and butter exports would also make those exports uncompetitive, as they are much higher in absolute terms than those for milk.

 

From study posted above

Drop in GDP due to no deal for France, 0.17% In comparison, a no-deal Brexit will reduce the UK’s GDP by a staggering 5.8% of GDP.

 

Oh yes I remember when we were told that as soon as Article 50 was triggered the German car manufacturers would be straight into Meckel demanding we get a ‘better deal’ than the one we have – then they didn’t do that

So then we were told that when it looked like we might crash the German car manufacturers would be straight into Meckel demanding we get a ‘good deal’ – then that didn’t happen

And now you are saying that once we have crashed out a royally pissed off our European trading partners that the German car manufacturers will be straight into Meckel demanding we get a deal.

Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me – but do leavers really want to try and fool us a third time.

 

It will hurt France it will hurt Germany it will hurt remoaners…..

I’ve talked with a lot of leavers and heard from many more and many of them have expressed a certain glee at what harm might happen because it will upset the French, the Germans the remainers, liberals, lefties, elites, the establishment, Londoners and multiculturalists.

As in the idea that although leavers know Brexit will cause the UK harm it will cause pain to those that wanted to remain and they find a certain excitement and joy in that thought, which just seems sad and sick.

 

You can say THAT again!

 

Brexit is a long term problem

Just crashing out of the EU without a deal will cause many very serious short term problems that in time will be dealt with but the harm doesn’t stop there because the thing is that ALL forms of Brexit will have harmful long term consequences. I’d even say that even if Brexit is cancelled a lot of damage has already been done that will have long term consequences, the rest of Europe and the world are looking at the UK differently, not as a sound place to invest but as somewhere dysfunctional with elements in it that are frankly insane.

People are saying - let’s just get it done - let’s just leave but the problem is that just leaving on the 31st doesn’t end Brexit you could say it’s when Brexit begins and that Brexit will go on for years.

If we leave without a deal we still have to get a deal, we cannot just stop all trade with our closest neighbours so to repeat we still have to get a deal with the EU which we have just really pissed off by forcing a crash out and have been insulting for many years.

We will have hurt them but the thing is we would have hurt ourselves much, much more, we will be in the weaker position not just with the EU but with virtually every other country in the WTO.

The long term consequences of that will be harsh.

 

Please read carefully and inwardly digest.
Thank you.

FORGET POLITICS, IS BORIS’S NEW EU TREATY BREXIT?

No, it’s not Brexit factsheet no.7 –
The EU’s new UK Colonisation Treaty A layman’s summary of the EU’s new ‘UK colonisation treaty’ agreed by the PM yesterday

1. Parliament will not be sovereign - UK still to be governed by existing and new laws of the ECJ – a foreign court – and with no say over these laws. [WA articles 4, 87, 89 and 127, PD para 131]

2. Demands payment of a sum to be decided by the EU - Minimum £39 billion but this is likely to increase and the EU decides the final sum. This must be paid BEFORE any trade deal is agreed. [WA articles 138-144, and 152-155]

3. No trade deal with EU – Not included as this is just a divorce treaty. Any EU trade deal must ensure “a level playing field for open and fair competition” and “deep regulatory and customs cooperation”. This will make it difficult for the UK to reduce non-tariff barriers in trade deals with USA, Australia, China, etc. [PD paras 17 & 21]

4. Prevents independent tax policy - Political Declaration still obliges UK to adopt a future relationship which will impose EU State Aid rules and “relevant tax matters” on the UK. EU specifically intends to curb UK’s ability to have “harmful tax practices”. Withdrawal Treaty also applies EU law to UK during transition period - allowing EU to sue UK, including infringement proceedings for as yet unidentified breaches of State Aid rules and billions in VAT on commodity derivative transactions dating back to 1970s. [PD para 77, WA articles 86, 93, 127].

5. Restricts independent foreign policy - UK to be bound by international agreements concluded by the EU despite having no influence in their negotiation during the transition period and must “refrain, during the transition period, from any action... which is likely to be prejudicial” to the interests of the EU. [Articles 129(3) and (6)].

6. Prevents independent military action – UK permanently stopped from taking “any action likely to conflict with or impede” EU’s foreign policies. Critical parts of section on foreign policy and security are not reciprocal, eg future relationship will not “prejudice the decision-making autonomy of the EU” but no such language for UK – only permitted to “maintain the right to determine how [to respond] to any invitation to participate in operations or missions”. Also, parties “agree to consider” security collaboration in European Defence Agency, European Defence Fund, and PESCO “to the extent possible under [EU law]” which is prescriptive (not permissive) obligation. Despite paying for European Defence Agency during transition, British troops in EU battlegroups will not be led by British staff officers. [WA articles 129(6-7) and 156-157 and PD paras 99, 102(c)]

7. Controls UK fishing – Common Fisheries Policy continues in UK waters during transition (which can be extended) but UK will have no say in implementation or enforcement. After transition, Political Declaration requires “cooperation on... regulation of fisheries, in a non-discriminatory manner” - code for continuing current arrangements for EU access to UK waters. Any trade deal to “ensure service providers and investors are treated in a non-discriminatory manner, including with regard to establishment” - prevents UK protecting quotas from EU purchase. [PD paras 29 and 72]

8. Replaces one EU Commission with another - New body established with “powers equivalent to those of the European Commission”. UK must accept exclusive jurisdiction of Arbitration Panel and judgments of ECJ. Grants EU officials criminal immunity and exemption from UK tax. Imposes gagging order on UK which must keep all EU information confidential but EU can use UK information as it sees fit. [WA articles 74, 101, 104-5, 106-116, 159, 168, 174]

9. Leaves UK with €500bn liabilities from EU Investment Bank but no profits - No rights to past and future profits made from UK investment in EIB, no rights to UK share of assets of EIB, yet UK remaining liable for risk of up to €500bn of guarantees. UK must let EU bid for UK public projects at least during transition. [WA articles 34, 75-78, 127, 143, 147, 150].

10. EU colonisation - makes UK bystander in laws that govern it - UK permitted to send civil servant to Brussels to observe EU passing laws designed to disadvantage UK economy during transition which might last many years. EU could regulate London’s huge foreign exchange markets, impose financial transaction tax that would be collected at UK expense by HMRC but sent to foreign governments. [WA article 34] Prepared by Brexit Facts4EU.Org with advice from a Brussels-based barrister For more information: https://facts4eu.org/news/2019_oct_eu_treaty_for_uk_

 

And he makes my point for me – we need a second vote

The leave vote was SPLIT

People voted for differing version of Brexit that were often incompatible with others, so one type of deal that would be acceptable to one or two groups would be vehemently opposed by other groups of leavers. And a leave without a deal (that wasn’t even canvassed for in the referendum) that some want is strongly opposed by many other types of leavers.

What we need is a long delay or to revoke article 50 so the leavers can decide what they want – then they can bring it to the table after it has been peer reviewed costed and given due scrutiny and then it can be presented to the country – so this time people know exactly what they are voting for.

 

In the long diatribe above from cut and pasted from a very pro-Brexit blog it is clear the author and reader seem to be completely divorced from reality, its demanding again that they want a unicorn.

I mean they don’t seem to realise that even after the UK left the EU without a deal we would still need to negotiate a deal.

It is just that after leaving with NO DEAL we would be far more desperate and facing a much more hostile EU27.

The idea that you can have your cake and eat it is the very definition of impossible.

 

Please read the below communication From The Brexit Party.
And look at The Brexit Party election launch!
Go on.
You know it makes sense!



Let’s compare it to what we thought we would get when we voted Leave. If it is passed into law, the PM’s Treaty will mean:
Britain remains under EU rules but with no vote, no voice, no veto.

During the Withdrawal Agreement’s extendable ‘transition period’ (which lasts until at least the end of 2020 and almost certainly years longer), we won’t withdraw from the EU at all but become non-voting members. We will still be trapped in the EU customs union and single market, subject to all existing EU laws and any punitive new ones they might pass (Articles 4.1, 4.2, 6, 41, 95.1, 127). And we’ll be under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) (Arts 4.4, 4.5, 86, 87, 89, 95.3, 131, 158, 163). The difference is we won’t have any say (Arts 7.1, 34). Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?
EU judges can still override our laws.

The ECJ – a foreign court – governs the Treaty and EU law takes precedence. Future British parliaments will be bound to obey ECJ rulings, and UK judges will be obliged to overturn laws passed by our Parliament if the ECJ says they don’t comply with the Treaty or the EU laws it enables. (Articles 4.4, 4.5, 86, 87, 89, 95.3, 131, 158, 163). In some cases, the ECJ will rule for years even after the transition ends. Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?



We won’t control our fishing.

The dreadful Common Fisheries Policy continues in UK waters during the extendable transition period, but we will have no say in it (Article 130). That means huge foreign trawlers plundering our waters at the expense of our coastal communities. After the transition, the Political Declaration signs us up to sharing ‘access to water and quota shares’ (para 73) – which equals continued EU exploitation of UK fishing grounds. Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?
We still won’t be free to trade as we see fit.

Boris boasts of leaving the EU customs union. Yet the Political Declaration states any future free trade agreement with the EU must ensure ‘a level playing field’ (PD, para 17, 77) and ‘deep regulatory and customs cooperation’ (para 21). This means sticking to EU rules. It will be hard for the UK to reduce tariff barriers to cut the cost of living and make trade deals with other nations. The PD also requires we pursue ‘ambitious customs objectives that are in line with the Parties’ objectives and principles’ (para 22) – another restrictive EU customs union in all but name. Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?
We won’t have control of our tax or state aid policies .

EU law applies to the UK during the transition period (Article 127), and beyond that the Political Declaration obliges the UK to adopt EU rules on state aid rules and ‘relevant tax matters’ (para 77). This all means we can’t change tax rates to be more competitive and can’t assist a strategic industry such as British Steel. Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?
Britain can’t pursue an independent foreign policy.

The Treaty restricts UK sovereignty by preventing us taking ‘any action likely to conflict with or impede’ EU foreign policy (Article 129.6) – despite having no say in policy making. The UK will be signed up to all EU treaties, including new ones, throughout the transition period, and must ‘refrain… from any action... which is likely to be prejudicial’ to EU interests within international organisations such as the United Nations Security Council and the WTO (Article 129 points 1 and 3). Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?
Britain can’t pursue an independent defence policy.

The Political Declaration commits us to security integration through the European Defence Agency and the European Defence Fund (para 102(c)). We will fund the EU’s military plans during the transition period at least, and British troops in EU battlegroups will be under foreign command (Articles 128.2, 129.7, 156, 157). Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?



The United Kingdom will be divided.

The Treaty creates a de facto customs and regulatory border in the Irish Sea between Northern Ireland and Britain. Goods moving between NI and Britain will be checked. Citizens living in NI would effectively be staying in the EU, without any say in their laws, for at least four years after the transition and quite possibly forever. In other words, the UK gives up part of its sovereign territory —for what? (Protocol Articles 5 and 6.2). Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?
We pay the EU billions and get nothing in return.
The Treaty commits us to pay a sum to be decided by the EU (WA, Part Five). The £39bn payment demanded is likely to be just the start, with billions more to follow. Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?

And we’ll be trapped by the Political Declaration.

The problems won't end with the transition period. Don’t be fooled just because the Political Declaration on future relations is not legally binding. Article 184 of the Withdrawal Agreement requires us to use ‘best endeavours, in good faith’ to negotiate a future deal in line with the PD. Any breach of this duty will see the EU haul Britain before an arbitration panel – half EU appointees, half pro-EU judges from the UK. And the panel must defer to the European court on anything concerning EU Law. If they rule that a UK law goes against the Political Declaration, UK courts will have to overturn that law (WD Articles 170-175). The Political Declaration is a trap from which there is no plausible escape. Does that sound like the Brexit you voted for?