I Have Just Joined THE BREXIT PARTY!

Booze

It’s not your intelligence but your knowledge I’m questioning, as I keep pointing out you seem to be wanting to cause your country and other people pain out of ignorance.

LOL sorry mate but cut and pasting some links and an articule does not mean you understand what the implications are it just means you know where the ‘Ctrl’ ‘C’ and ‘P’ keys are on your keyboard.

Honestly man this is basic information that implies you’ve never read up on it until asked you to do so, I mean this is an incredible simple introduction and if you had actually read the thing you pasted, you couldn’t reasonably argue that going to WTO was anything more than a DISASTER for the country.

There is no rational argument that can be made that going to WTO will not cause the UK pain in the short and median term and cause long term decline.

But you seem unable to refute the claim that going to WTO would be a bad thing

 

Here is Pascal a former Director General of the World Trade Organisation

“What happens in the next days is you move down from first league to fourth league, and you have to apply tariffs, borders, controls and I’m not talking about specific arrangements of airlines, capital markets, nuclear safety. It’s not ready, nobody is ready, for a no deal, which is by the way the reason I think it will not happen. People are wise enough not to jump off the cliff without a parachute,”

A former Director General of the World Trade Organisation

Thing is that if people are ignorant about what happens if you jump off a cliff without a parachute then I suppose you can convince people that it will be OK.

But are people really that ignorant – I’m surprised to discover some maybe are.

 

Booze

Come on man look at the above post - go back and look at them – they clearly show the thing you support will cause this country, my family and possible even yourself great pain and long term suffering and you have to run away because you can’t justify that stance in any rational or reasonable way

What kind of person are you?

 

So I had an epiphany

For all the Union Jack waving and jingoistic tub-thumping of the leavers it is actually the remainers that love the UK more.

It’s the remainers that have bothered to gather the knowledge to make an informed decision, it’s the remainers that care enough to think about what would be best for the people of this country.

It’s like those people that don’t vaccinate their kids, they have fallen for a whole load of lies and conspiracy theories only to actually put their kids and other people at greater risk of catching diseases.

If such people had made the effort to become informed from reputable experts rather than charlatans they would be in a better position to know what was best for their child.

But like leavers many don’t seem to want to make that effort.

And that is something else I’ve learnt about at least some of the leavers – they I’m sorry to say seem rather lazy.

Too lazy to do some simple research to lazy it seems to just think things through, and if asked to think they react like the leavers above, they become huffy, they claim they have not the time of energy that they say they will put in the effort then run away, they simply just don’t do it.

So maybe it not like those people that don’t vaccinate their kids but closer to those people that get done for child neglect because they just can’t be bothered to look after their child.

Either way by being uninformed or negligent they are hurting the thing they should love, care for and protect.

 

An updated recap [edited 14th June]

Leavers want to leave because of they don’t like cuts in Public Service.

But Public Services have been adversely effected by UK right wing political polices that have NOTHING to do with the EU.

Leavers want to leave because of they think migration is a threat

But EU migration to the UK seems to be beneficial to the UK economy

Leavers want to leave because of the adverse EU laws imposed on the UK

But no leaver seems able to cite any of these adverse laws let alone explain why they are detrimental to the UK.

Leavers want to leave to ‘take back control’ because of ‘sovereignty’ and the fear of– ‘loss of identity’

But no leaver seems able to explain what those things are or actually mean.

Leavers want to leave because they think EU migrants drive down wages

Many studies show that this is mainly false and in the very few cases it happens it is down to UK government policies not the EU. Brexit is likely to bring about more exploitation not less.

Leavers want to leave because they blame the EU for UK companies moving abroad/outsourcing

Companies moving abroad or outsourcing is mainly down to right wing UK government policies and not the EU and Brexit is more likely to encourage companies to move away from the UK.

 

Now that The Brexit Party are getting well established being well ahead in the Opinion Polls above Labour and Conservative and Liberal if there were a general election NOW.
The are doing a good job at rubbishing Project Fear.
Above was part of what came through our letterbox today.

 

What has the EU done for me: Wales

It’s been said that many regions where many people for Brexit are those that have benefited from EU development money take Wales – it currently receives around £680 million of EU funds every year and since 2007 EU projects have supported 229,110 people to gain qualifications, helped 72,700 people into work and created 36,970 jobs and 11,925 enterprises.

Maybe leavers think that once out of the EU this could be improved but neoliberals are usually not in favour of using public money for such projects believing the ‘market’ should be allowed to work such things out by giving tax cuts for the wealthy.

I mean in February of 2017, Plaid Cymru tabled an amendment to the Brexit Bill seeking assurances about future funding in Wales and it wasn't backed by the Conservatives.

 

I think you are rather conveniently forgetting the fact that the U.K. pays something like 14 BILLION POUNDS INTO EU Funds a year for our membership.
The money you speak of just means that we are getting just a little of OUR money back.
FACT!

Do you really think Wales gets that money as a gift from the EU?
If you do.
Please think again!

PS.
I don’t believe a word the Plaid Cymru says anyway.
Lying propaganda merchants the lot of them!

 

LOL the whole scheme of EU membership is to raid the coffers of member nations and build an impenetrable bureaucracy in Brussels.

Somehow wise men and women in Britain must have suspected this scheme from the start when they purposely decided not to scrap the Pound and submerge into EURO. Amid wild protests from EU masters in Brussels I might add.

 

And thank goodness the U.K. did NOT join the Euro Ath.
I remember when this subject came up and doom and gloom and project fear took over extolling all sorts of horrible things would happen to us if we did not scrap our £ and go into the EURO.

We have done just fine, and we will do just fine when we Brexit.

End of!

Bring it on!

 

Please think on this all:

We heard all the same scare stories about not joining the Euro.
They were wrong!
We heard all the same scare stories about voting Leave.
They were wrong!
We're hearing the same stories about No Deal....
When will they learn the British people won't be cowed by Project Fear?

 

Booze

The problem is that you leavers don’t read and you don’t care about lying

This thread post 75 (and repeated several times)

As for paying for EU membership well to repeat

I believe it cost somewhere close to 9 billion

But let’s put that in context - we spend:

145 billion on health

45 billion on defence

29 billion on transport

And 13 billion on overseas aid

We also contribute less (per head of population) than some other EU countries such as Germany.

For the 9 billion we get all the advantages of free trade with the EU members and with the EU trade deals with none EU countries along with a say in the regulations and policies set by the EU (unlike say Norway).

Some have put a figure of roughly £31bn-£92bn per year as the best estimate we have in terms of the additional value created to the UK economy through trade as a result of EU membership.

 

Booze

Do you even know what you are talking about, what are you implying?

The money comes from supporting farming communities and structural funds (such as the ESF and ERDF*) which goes toward things like supporting people into work and training along with urban development.

*
European Social Fund (ESF)

ESF is about people. Its purpose is to improve employment opportunities, promote social inclusion and invest in skills by providing support to help people fulfil their potential.

European Regional Development Fund (ERDF)

ERDF is about business and infrastructure. Its purpose is to support research, strengthen businesses, promote renewable energy and improve infrastructure.

 

Booze

A propagandist can’t have an honest debate – like you

A propagandist can’t refute criticism of their views – like you

A rational or honest person would have to agree by now that they have no rational reasons for leaving the EU.

I don’t think you are either rational or honest you are simply a propagandist

So what are your true motivations?

 

So what are the real motivations for some leavers?

I mean it’s not the EU – leavers shout a lot but they have no arguments or counter argument just a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing.

But there does seem to be an undercurrent that colours at least some leaver’s views of the EU which while having nothing to do with the EU.

It’s about ‘British identity’ and ‘British culture’ and how they think it under attack by dark forces.

Which was highlighted for me by a recent post in which a leaver called London by the well-known racist/bigoted nickname of Londonstan (sometime Londonistan).

In the same post he mention visiting places with high levels of Asian and black populations and thinking to himself ‘What bastard country am I in’

Another leaver talked of his anger at seeing a polish shop in his town and yet another mentioned the Rivers of Blood speech my Enoch Powell (with its call to repatriate non-white migrants to save and for the safety of the white races of Britain, otherwise "In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man") a post that was liked by other leavers.

This seems to imply that for some of the leavers at least there is a feeling that by leaving the EU it is a step toward turning the clocks back so ‘their’ country can be restored.

This would all seem to indicate that this isn’t about the worth or otherwise of been a member of the EU it is something more primal and irrational.

And they can’t just come on with what they mean by ‘British identity’ and ‘British culture’ oh they can whistle and they can wink, (for example Booze follows up his moan about Asian and black Lewisham with ‘I could go on but I fink you get me drift’) but at least at the moment they can’t seem to bring themselves to be open and honest.

Please be so please explain what you mean by ‘British identity’ and ‘British culture’ and how you would ‘restore’ it?

 

Fear and loathing on the road to Brexit

Again I’m left with the impression that Brexit isn’t about Brexit

The grievances and complains of many leavers have got nothing to do with the EU

The right wing press do not seem to differentiate between non-EU migration and EU migration or between migrants and refugees or asylum seekers – they seem to want to purposely blur the lines in an effort to mislead and confuse people.

It all in an effort to mixed up all up in people’s minds so they think immigration from the Caribbean, the Indian sub-continent or Africa is to do with the EU and conflates EU ‘freedom of movement’ with the UK’s obligations to help refugees and asylum seekers under international law.

Then these right wing politicians and media made ‘them’ disliked and distrusted by ‘use’ through claiming they are all benefit scroungers, who at the same time are taking away ‘our’ jobs while been a burden on the NHS and taking up all the social housing.

The thing is that the stories told usually do not involve migrants that come to Britain to work from the EU there might be the occasional joke about Polish workers been cheaper and harder working than British ones but most of the stories that appear in the right wing press involve mainly brown people who have sort asylum in the UK, people from places like Syria, or Afghanistan along with lots of mentions of burkas.

So a dislike (even loathing) is created of the ‘them’, all non-EU immigrants, EU migrates and refugees.

And then these same right wingers push the untruthful idea that it’s all ‘out of control’ and all ‘bad’.

It seems to me that was about heightening anxiety and even fear to make ‘them’ seem like a threat to ‘use’

Then these merchants of misinformation twist the screw and scream that the country is at breaking point, that the country is full.

Which again rackets up the tension by making it seem like the ‘them’ are an immediate and present danger

This to me is like shouting FIRE is a crowded nightclub when there is no fire, it’s likely to cause many people harm as they try to escape (even those people trying to point out there is no fire).

People who are afraid do not act rationally, they seldom stop to think (they feel there is no time) they just react.

I think this is what the right wing punters, politicians and press wanted to bring about they created unnecessary fears and imaginary dangers to disorientate people into acting against the county’s and their own and others self-interests by getting then to vote for Brexit.

 

Was Brexit about Brexit and What Happens Next

So we have discovered how right wingers have blurred the lines between immigrants, migrants and refugees making many see them as one group.

Then how those same right wingers have pushed the blame for all the countries problems onto them (problems that actually go back to right wing policies).

How the right has created a dislike, loathing even fear of ‘them’ (all immigrants, migrants, refugees and asylum seekers).

This at the moment has solidified around the issue of Brexit that if we can leave the EU we can stop EU migrants from coming to Britain because of the free trade deal (freedom of movement of goods, capital, services and labour)

But was Brexit about Brexit

We will be able to stop other EU citizens from coming to the UK to work (while also making it far more difficult to trade in goods and services, meaning less work been available in the UK). But few stories the right wingers were pushing to blame migrants for British problems were actually about EU migrants.

And that’s the problem with Brexit is not going to be a panacea for the ‘bad’ things set up by the right wing politicians and media.

The problems that had been blamed on ‘them’ are not going to go away after Brexit they are likely to get very much worse.

So what then?

Well the first question to ask is - who are the ‘them’ and who is the ‘use’?

This is very hard for me to pin down because I don’t see a ‘them’ and ‘use’. I see different groups of people coming to Britain for differing reasons.

But by talking to leavers we can get a picture of who leavers see as ‘them’ and some do talk about EU migrations (the Polish come up on occasion) but usually this in the context of the debunked myth that such worker are the fault for low wages and for taking jobs away from native born British people.

But many have talked to in the context of Brexit who have brought up a ‘them’ that have nothing to do with the EU, but a lot to do with the merging of lines and the imagery pushed by right winger politicians and media.

I’ve heard people complain about the number of brown or black people in their local GP’s waiting room, others have mentioned burkas and we have had someone going into multicultural areas in British towns full of British citizens and think of then as not being ‘British’.

So what happens after Brexit?

Well it seems to me that certain right wingers have already established a ‘them’ they can blame for any problems.

So what then do we pull out of international treaties on refugees and asylum seekers and what happens when that doesn’t make things better (because it wouldn’t) do we then turn on the people that are designated as been not ‘British’ enough?

 

If you ask me, Brexit doesn't solve what 'leavers' intend to solve. And it isn't really about the EU, but more about migrants, refugees, and immigrants as you mentioned and ethnocentrist attitudes about them. Probably tourists as well. So what does happen then? Only time will tell man. We can safely put this one to bed. I think everyone's mind is made up to leave or stay; but the vote was still leave.

So isn't that what's going to happen? That's what I'm curious to find out. I keep checking the thread here for any news of a departure...

 

Thank you for your input Soul.
Any further REAL News of departure can really only come once the new leader of The Tory Party is sorted.
THEN things should move.
I hope Boris or whoever have us OUT of the EU by end October, but I am not holding my breath.
But if they don't, then The Brexit Party will have the Tory's for toast!