I Have Just Joined THE BREXIT PARTY!

And to carry on from my last post -

Now I’m sure some leaver out there is thinking of giving the Pavlovian response they have been taught which is to cite article 24 of WTO GATT.

This article allows countries who are negotiating a free-trade area or customs union to have an interim agreement on trade tariffs for a period of (in most cases) up to ten years provided they have a “plan and schedule” agreed for concluding a final deal.

BUT if the UK leaves the EU with no deal, and therefore no trade agreement, it will not be able to use Article 24.

The EU would have to agree terms and in fact since we would be throwing out the present withdrawal deal, we would have to begin negotiations all over again.

Remember that £39 Billion that was part of that deal that the Brexit Party don't want to pay

Now while just crashing out would hit the UK really, really badly it would have a lesser adverse effect on the EU and they could well think that not only should we pay up from what we owe the EU for past contractual obligations [the £39 billion] but that we should also pay them some compensation for the harm the UK has caused.

All’s fair in love, war and trade negotiations and the EU negotiators are in fact actually obliged to try and do the best they can for their members and we wouldn’t be one of them.

And they would have us over a barrel because did I mention we are going to be in a very bad place by then.

I hate to think what they might ask for in such a situation.

I wouldn’t support such a move but I couldn’t blame them either seeing as it would have been us who caused all the pain – or those that wanted to leave like that would have.

Although they think crashing out will be fine although not one of them can explain why.

 

That's what we are trying to do get rid of the crappy EU car but they still want us to pay for a none runner

 

Mal

Sorry that doesn’t make sense

Remember this was about the information coming from each side of the debate

As a remainer I’m not trying to be evasive or refusing to explain my thinking I’m very happy to answer questions and address criticisms, that is part of debate.

But the leavers seem to be the very opposite, they make up excuses why they can’t talk, they out and out refuse to explain their thinking, they moan about even been asked questions and they dismiss criticisms without addressing them.

To go back to the second-hand car story again

You go to one person who has the cars current MOT, the log book, can answer all your questions about it, clearly and distinctly, lets you look at the engine and anything else and is happy to give you a test drive.

And then there is another seller who has none of the paperwork (can give them to you later after you hand over the money) who refuses to answer any of your questions about it, will not allow you to look under the bonnet or check for rust, and says he doesn’t have the keys right now so can’t give you a test drive - but who keeps telling you very loudly that it’s a GREAT car, the BEST car, a WONDERFUL RUNNER’

Honestly which car would you most likely buy?

I think you decided to go with the dud

But actually if anything you are the seller rather than the buyer – you are the seller that refuses to answer questions and is evasive and doesn’t want to talk about the thing you are selling.

You think people should leave but you don’t seem able to explain why

 

You are the car seller that tries to force someone to buy a car they really don't want and would rather walk than ride in it ! but you wont take No for an answer and keep pestering how good it is , I don't need a reason to buy the fucking thing OK your family will starve if you don't get the sale But that's no reason for me to buy a car I don't want or need !!
Its not a debate whether you like it or not

And if you think my answer is stupid its meant to be to fit in with your pathetic car analogy

 

Good reply actually mally, I'm sure Balbus will agree...

 

If he agrees or not I am sure he will use a lot of words telling me yes or no !

 

Yeah if he was me, I'd ban him for being a pain in the arse oops! Lord help me

 

I agree morrow.
But the Lord helping you?
Sorry.
He gave up on you a long time ago!

 

You know nothing about me.. your last insult? Or are there more to come?

 

I really hope that's a joke !

 

That was NOT meant to be an insult morrow.
I was actually trying to be friendly towards you, but I obviously failed.
But the gif should have told you I was having a laugh.
Obviously I failed and I will never post towards you again.

With that in mind you are the first person I have put on ignore here.
Goodbye!

 

Morrow and Mal

Thank you that also highlights a mentality I worry about I’ve often noticed from leavers

If it was in your power you would stop a political opponent from talking, because they ask questions you can’t answer and don’t like to be asked, things that you find a pain in the arse.

So if you could you would stop me from been able to ask them.

What next, I’ve already been called a traitor and British judges were called ‘enemies of the people’ for doing something leave supporters didn’t like.

Authoritarian regimes often begin small but if unchecked such attitudes can lead to the re-education camps and the gulag.

I really want to understand your think so I don’t want to silence you, maybe if you actually tried to answer the questions and address the criticism rather than running away or trying to silence the questioner then you might gain some insight into why you seem to wish harm on your country, my family and more than likely yourself.

 

Mal

Did you not realise that was the point we are both sellers and buyers? You bought into leaving I bought into remaining.

The question is why?

I looked into it, studied, read and did the research and because of that concluded that remaining was better you don’t seem to have done any research you just ‘don’t want it’ although you seem unable to define what ‘it’ is.

I can answer the questions – YOU CAN’T

I can explain why I have my views - YOU CAN’T

I can address the criticisms of my views - YOU CAN’T

Have you ever asked yourself why you can’t?

 

O.K. balbus.
You win.

I can’t.
I can’t.
I can’t.
No.

I give in.
You win.
Now please stop this torture and go away and bother folk who give a poo about your incessant monologue on this matter.

Deal?
Or no deal?

Cheers!

 

Sorry mate this is important not the giggle you seem to think it is.

Even a soft Brexit is going to hurt this country the hard one you seem to want would be catastrophic and you don’t seem to care – you’ve called me traitor for not wanting what you want, but the thing is why do you want to harm the UK, why do you want to harm my family why do you want to harm yourself?

Maybe if you knew a bit more about the subject you wouldn’t be so flippant and frivolous.

 

If i called you a traitor Balbus, then i take that back and apologise.

Trying to make me feel guilty about leaving the EU will not work on me.

Of course I have no wish to harm you or your family, but we have had project fear before and that sort of talk is just a continuation of that.
There may be some short term problems leaving on WTO terms, but this country of ours will come out of that much stronger and much better for it.

You mark my words!

 

Booze

But basically project fear came true – remember before the referendum vote all the leavers said Brexit would be great and wonderful, ther would be a Brexit bonus, more money for the NHS, an end to austerity the sunny upland and having our cake and eating it

Well they all seem to have changed their minds, all have agreed that it is going to cause pain, some claim (without explaining why) that it will only be short term but others think it might take a generation or longer.

Remember that any remainer that said any warning about the possibility of a downside to Brexit was labelled a scaremonger of so called project fear.

Look around companies are quietly leaving and closing down, people like Ford, Nissan and British Steel might not want to come right out and blame Brexit, why would they they’d get attacked by the leaver press but from what I’ve heard they all admit it is.

And virtually every analyst and economist thinks that a soft Brexit will be bad in short medium and long term but a hard Brexit like you want will make things a lot, lot worse.

I’ve explained all this many times and you don’t seem able to refute it in any rational way.

Do you understand what WTO terms means, can you explain it, because your statement seems to indicate you haven’t a clue.

And then when you have done that explanation, then explain just why you would think that catastrophe will make Britain ‘stronger’?

Because mate if you do the first I very much doubt you could do the second.

And if after that you don’t feel guilt for what you are pushing you must have a soul of stone.

 

Please do not insult my intelligence.
Of course I know what World Trade Organisation are and mean

For YOUR benefit please read below

WTO | What is the WTO?

Reality Check: What does a 'WTO Brexit' mean?

Now then.
With respect.
I am done trying to reason with you so we are just going to have to beg to differ. Please don't waste any more of your time asking me to justify myself and my belief that the EU has been and always will be a force for bad for our Great Country.
The quicker we are FREE from the shackles of the EU the BETTER.
Cheers.

--------

One of the terms that keeps cropping up in the Brexit debate is "the WTO option".

If the UK left the European Union without a deal, it would automatically fall back on World Trade Organization (WTO) rules.

So what would that mean?

First, the basics. What is the WTO?
The WTO is the place where countries negotiate the rules of international trade - there are 164 members and, if they don't have free trade agreements with each other, they trade under "WTO rules".

Which are?
Every WTO member has a list of tariffs (taxes on imports of goods) and quotas (limits on the number of goods) that they apply to other countries. These are known as their WTO schedules.

The average EU tariff is pretty low (about 2.8% for non-agricultural products) - but, in some sectors, tariffs can be quite high.

Under WTO rules, after Brexit, cars would be taxed at 10% when they crossed the UK-EU border. And agricultural tariffs would be significantly higher, rising to an average of more than 35% for dairy products.

The government has set out its plans for tariffs in the case of a no-deal Brexit.

Its temporary schedule would mean that 87% of imports by value will be tariff-free, compared with 80% before Brexit.

There will be some protection for companies producing cars in the UK, farmers producing meat and the UK ceramics industry. The government has attempted to balance the benefits of free trade in getting cheaper products for consumers, with protecting the livelihoods of some UK producers.

Goods to have their tariff rates cut to zero
Product Current tariff rate Temporary tariff rate
Jams, jellies and marmalades 24% 0%
Oranges 16% 0%
Televisions 14% 0%
Onions 9.6% 0%
Spoons 8.5% 0%
Peas 8% 0%
Carpets 8% 0%
Batteries 4.7% 0%
Source: UK Government
It's important to remember that, under the WTO's "most favoured nation" rules, the UK couldn't just lower tariffs for the EU, or any specific country, unless it had agreed a trade deal. It has to treat every WTO member around the world with which it does not have a trade deal in the same way.

What about other checks and costs?
These are what are known as "non-tariff barriers" and include things such as product standards, safety regulations and sanitary checks on food and animals.

Once the UK is no longer part of the EU, both sides need to find a way to work with each other's regulations. Under a no-deal Brexit that is unlikely to happen immediately.

Standards are different. The UK is part of an international and European system and will continue to be so after Brexit, enabling UK experts to influence the content of those standards.

You can argue that it might seem unreasonable if the EU was to go from imposing no checks on UK products at borders the day before Brexit, to insisting on all sorts of checks one day later, even though the UK hadn't changed any of its rules and regulations.

Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionWTO tariffs on dairy products average over 35%
But one source close to the WTO said the EU would be well within its rights to insist on checks in the absence of any mutual recognition agreement.

That is one of the differences between suddenly falling back on WTO rules in a no-deal scenario and a more gradual transition to WTO rules in which many of these issues could be ironed out.

Non-tariff barriers would have an even greater impact on the service sector, which makes up about 80% of the UK economy.

Doesn't the UK already trade with many countries on WTO rules?
Yes it does, as part of the EU.

Examples include the United States and China, Brazil and Australia. In fact, it's any country with which the EU (and therefore the UK) has not signed a free trade deal. That's when WTO rules kick in.

But it's more complicated than that. Those big economies don't just rely on WTO rules - each one also has agreements with the EU on top of that.

The US, for example, has at least 20 agreements with the EU that help regulate specific areas of trade, covering everything from wine and bananas to insurance and energy-efficiency labelling.

In the event of a no-deal Brexit, (and an abrupt change in relations), the UK is working to replicate the deals the EU currently has with the rest of the world. As an EU member, the UK is currently part of about 40 trade agreements that the union has with more than 70 countries.

The government has signed continuity deals with some of these countries, the most significant of which is Switzerland. But it has also said that deals with countries such as Japan and Turkey will not be concluded in time for Brexit.

• How many trade deals has the UK agreed?
• WTO rules: What happens if there's a no-deal Brexit?

It's worth remembering that 44% of all UK exports in 2017 went to the rest of the European Union with no checks or tariffs, as part of the single market and the customs union. That's down from 55% in 2006, but the EU is still by far the largest UK export market. So, going to WTO rules for trade with the EU would be a huge change.

"It's not going to be the end of the world in the sense that trade is going to stop and that everything is going to fall down," the WTO's director general, Roberto Azevedo, told BBC News in August.

"But it's not going to be a walk in the park either."

 

Boozer... that BBC article seems to heavily suggest a no deal WTO Brexit is a bad idea...
That wasn't the whole thing you copied and pasted, either.

 

I am not promoting propaganda in support of my belief that going to WTO would be a good thing.
I don’t have to agree with all its conclusions.
I copied and pasted what I reasonably could, but gave the link to it all if anyone was interested enough to read the lot.