I have a question regarding the environment and libertarians?

Indie

But you mostly refuse to discuss your ideas on what to do about the issues and you refuse to address the many outstanding criticisms of them.

Again I ask what people are you talking about in the light of your views on democracy and giving wealth greater voting power?

But ideas do need to be debated to see if they stand up to criticism, the thing is that a bad idea is probably one that cannot be defended from criticism and as you seem unable to defend your ideas from criticism in any rational or reasonable way.


You have a headache and someone (mister X) says they can cure it.


Mister X takes you to a lion’s cage and tells you to place your head in the lion’s mouth



You ask if they can give a rational and reasonable argument for doing it and they reply that they don’t need to because it’s obviously a good idea.


You say that given the nature of the animal it being a large meat eater and that by the way it seems to be very hungry that you think the most likely outcome of putting your head in its mouth is that it would bit it off.


Mister X says that your ideas are just based on your anti-lion prejudices and says you are an idiot for not following their advice.


Now do you put your head in the lion’s mouth?


How about a you compromise – you don’t put your head in but instead but your hand in the lions mouth and see what happens?


To me a bad idea is a bad idea.

 

I have no idea if you have or have not. You tell me.

 

Indie

This is rubbish – are sheep or wolves self aware and capable of rational thought? Do sheep and wolves write constitutions, regulations and laws that try to limit their actions? Do they put in place police to enforce the laws and a judiciary that punishes transgression?

Again another case of slogan politics that just falls apart when looked at in any depth

 

Indie

LOL


Second time – “So let’s first confirm you have nothing, no clue?”

 

Have you ever had a conversation with another human being Bal?

No, I don't have a clue as to how to get population under control, and asked you to provide us with a solution. So are you saying that you also have no clue at all, nothing, nada, absolute zilch?

 

Indie

Ok well let’s go through it together and see if you can learn how things are thought through.

Let’s start by wondering why populations might go up?

Can you think of anything?

 

letlovin

You got it from a ‘bad source’ do you mean you copied it without thinking about it? You needed us to criticise it before you realised it was busted?

It all seems to come back to the right wing libertarian viewpoint of regulation. Some of us are just pointing out that this doesn’t seem that well thought through.

 

Rather than waste time wondering incorrectly, I'll humbly defer to your irrefutable explanation.

 

Indie

Honestly you can’t even think that far?

Again your either/or mentality is holding you back

It’s not about correct or incorrect it’s about thinking – about opinion - you put up an idea and see if it stands up to scrutiny, see if it can be defended from criticism.

If you really can’t think even that far into something it’s no wonder you can’t seem to defend your ideas.

*

So why might populations go up?

How about birth rates and death rates?

Can you think of things that might affect those?

 

By golly, I'd have never thought of that.
I'm going to go out on a limb and take a wild guess, so correct me if I'm wrong. Could it be that when birth rates exceed death rates, the population increases? Of course there must be an explanation of how that can occur.

Okay, go ahead, I'm anxiously awaiting the full explanation, so we can learn how the environment problems will once and for all be solved.

 

o rly?

They will try. At some point they will try.

[edit: after replying to the OP I then went and read through the last coupla pages. Ooookaaaay *quietlystepsbackandhopesnobodynoticedtheinterruption* ]

 

I disagree that it simply "worked" close-the-book now.

I think they used the depression to scare Americans into accepting the New Deal, and it's really the same thing, but instead of multiple banks manipulating money, the federal reserve is the only counterfeiters allowed!

Progressive views are very bad to me. I can't make the moral argument that it's wrong to kill, steal and, use force to impose your will, because it is a moral argument, and one must understand that these things are ALWAYS wrong.

It is never okay, to kill a women or child. Not even if the government "accidentally" does it. It is not okay to keep blindly allowing politicians to poison our water with flouride and our food with GMOs. I really think government is self destructing because it has become the most evil force known to mankind, and it's unsustainable..

 

Meagain,

Are we still discussing the environment?

 

Indie (just indie others just skip this)

Well there is your problem. I mean you can sarcastically imply you did know that but you didn’t put it down did you.

Great we take a step forward

Oh dear we take a step back.

Honestly can you not think of any?

And this is another of your problems your lack of concentration – this isn’t about solving all environmental problems once and for all – it’s about trying to see if you can think of any possible ways to tackle population growth.

I’ll recap for you –

You put forward the view that you though a factor in environmental
degradation is the size of the population.

I asked you how that could be tackled

You said you hadn’t a clue

I replied that you only needed to think about it and that I’d try and help you.

I’m still trying to help you.

 

Indie

Well how could we go about seeking explanations?

Now I believe the population replacement rate is 2.1 that would keep a population level stable not growing or falling. Now some countries have fertility rates that are higher like Niger or Afghanistan that are over 7 (un figures 2009) but in other places the level is low than 2.1 like in France, Germany, the UK, Spain and Italy and the US is below the level with a total fertility rate of 1.89.

Population growth is not happening uniformly in many places populations are actually falling.

They are national figures but there is something else – fertility rates are not uniform with societies with difference in rates across the socioeconomic range.

So Indie what do you think would be the next step?