I hate

No, you actually used in your defence of denying gays the right to marry, that men can't make babies with men, and women can't make babies with women. But infertile women can't have babies with a man or a woman. So saying an infertile woman can marry pretty much invalidates your own arguement as far as not being able to procreate being a reason for not allowing gays to marry goes.

And what about intersex people who had their genitals medically altered in infancy without their consent? Narrowing down what's "natural", and what's not purely to genitalia strikes me as being a bit stupid. At least when you have all the scientific facts about what makes up gender and physical sex to hand. It is actually a hugely complex area, unlike the very simplistic and narrow view that many have of it.

 

trans, hermaphrodites have been on earth since man and women both arose from it... Selective after birth kills were commonplace though..
gender/ genital ignorance still is prevalent in our society..

 

So a man and an infertile woman get married, but they only enjoy performing oral sex on each other, that's immoral, according to your line of reasoning?

But you said earlier that it was about procreation and not enjoyment, so wouldn't a man and an infertile woman getting married be immoral anyway?

And since marriage is about procreation, having sex before marriage is also wrong, correct?

Are any of these more or less wrong or right according to your moral code?

 

I do think intersex (which isn't the same as a hermaphrodite) people are the ultimate quandary to people who place what's natural for a person to act and do, purely down to their genitalia. You're right Orison, in times past, most babies born intersex/hermaphrodite, would be killed after birth. Although that mostly doesn't happen these days, it is commonplace for people born with outwordly visible intersex conditions to be artificially assigned a gender without their consent or knowledge. (as what happened to me.)

Some intersex conditions, are not visible at birth. (such as Swyer syndrome, in which a person is born outwordly female and has a vagina, but also has no ovaries, undescended testes, and has XY chromosomes) So some people can go many years before discovering they have such a condition, and Im sure many people who have intersex conditons have gone through their whole lives never knowing about it. A woman with Swyer syndrome can legally marry a man, because they are raised as females and are seen as women, even though they actually have XY chromosomes. Situations like these make arguements like those made by Rugor seem completely out of touch with reality, and quite ridiculous.

Most people are very ignorant about the very complex nature of what makes up gender, and even physical sex. Which is why I will not accept someone saying someone is being or doing something "unnatural" purely because of what sex they are, or what genitalia they have.

 

Also, if Rugor is trolling, well done sir.

 

When it comes to gay marriage, I say do what you want. But I do get aggravated with some people on both sides. I'm against the people picketing gay marriage for "religions sake." I"m against the Catholic religion for the soul fact that they are so anti-gay to the point where they make themselves look like idiots.

I'm also against the gay people that feel like straight people are WRONG for being straight. My friend's sister is a lesbian and she thinks straight people are so gross and morally wrong.

Now I read through this whole thread and Rugor you make a valid point about how things are "supposed to" go but since we are all creatures with free will and minds of our own, we will do what we want to do, whether that be having sex with the same sex or murdering someone. You sound very much like the closed-minded Catholics that do nothing but bash gays.

 

I'd be really surprised if there were practicing Catholics of any number holding such signs. Certain Protestant/Fundamentalists definitely, but I don't know of any Catholics like that, and I know a whole lot of'em.

 

Catholics themselves don't necessarily protest it, but the church itself does. That Westborough Baptist Church is their own entity...whatever they believe in, no one knows, but its evil

 

"i hate people who..." is the same as "i hate people who..."
you are filling it in with "hate gays" and other fill it with "want gay marriage".
WHOOPDEDOOO! big difference! (not really.)
Point is, you're a hypocrite and I don't understand why anybody thinks saying "I hate this group of people because" is worth anything.

 

It's kind of like saying 'never say never'.

 

i hate it when people offer me margarine instead of butter... or worse, when they just slop it all over the place without telling me they're serving me a failed attempt at turkey feed that even the turkeys wouldn't eat

 

I'm pretty sure your sisters a rebellious 20's something who's things like that in an attempt to stick up for herself and her gay friends and girlfriends through bombastic language, and she indeed has no moral qualms with being straight.

I bet if you had a 20 minute conversation with her, agree with her.

Of course I don't know her. She may be a really militant dyke. But those are few and far between.

What about this... Homosexuality is far more prevalent in large urban communities than in small communities. It could be merely a cultural thing, that their exposed more opportunities to explore.

Or it could be part of a natural causation effect, essentially trying to bring birth rates down in an overpopulated place (world). In that sense maybe having an increasing rate of homosexuality is very natural.

 

She is in her 20s and I'm sure that a lot of her influence is from the people she spends time with. Like I said, she's a sibling of a friend, so I don't see or talk to her much, but the last time we had the conversation, she said that I was gross for liking men. I found it odd. She called me a "breeder."

Well, homosexuality is something that's been around for a very very very long time and a lot of countries/cultures practice it without any repercussions that we have in America. I'm all for it...whatever makes people happy...I just dislike people who are closed-minded on either side-the gays and the "breeders."

What I meant by what's "supposed to happen" is in the aspect of religion and what a lot of religions believe to be "right." Man with woman, the shoe fits. But I do believe that a lot of religions and faith "systems" need to reassess their structure because homosexuality doesn't seem to be going anywhere-cultural or not-it's definitely a big movement storming throughout western societies.

 

Heh, my sister and my sister in law (married, I was their best man) call we straight people breeders too. They do it with complete playfulness and my sister in law is Bi. The thing is, I don't think there's a large anti heterosexuality movement across any gay culture, they're just fighting for their rights. Terms like breeder are either playful affection or for shock value of disillusioned punk kids who were probably picked on a lot. There are no movements among gay groups to ban straight marriages.

And the religious aspect is sort of tenuous too. Homosexuality is openly practiced by some branches of Hinduism and admonished by others. Buddhism has no official stance, other than cultural taboos, which by living in a few Buddhist countries I've found very tolerant.

The Greeks and the Romans were pretty cuckoo about man on man action.

Only the Abrahamic religions had any prohibitions against it, largely based on a few sparse old testament citations.

And without admonishing the religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as a whole, the same book (leviticus) which barred homosexuality (a man shall not lie with another man) also suggested stoning to death disobedient children. On the next page.

I think we agree. Love who you want. :biggrin:

 

OK OK, i think its MEAN that people would protest gay marriage. i knew a couple kids in high school who were gay and the jocks would always refer to them as fags. i believe someday it will be legal in all 50 states to marry whomever your heart desires.

 

Hey rugor

If god didn't want us to put dicks up our butts, why would he have given us g-spots in there?

 

did the fags refer to the athletes as jocks too?

 

He wants you to stick your own finger up there and then not tell anybody about it, gah, don't you know how the God thing works?

 

it's a test. kinda like adam & eve with the whole apple thing

 

the anus is meant to let crap out. the anus was built to let stuff out. the anus was NOT built to let stuff in.

did you know that if a man does to much anal sex that he will have to wear a shit bag later in life because his anus muscles can no longer work properly. hmmmm. does that sound natural?

next off. there are several posters here putting words in my mouth. I never even brought up my religion or my morals.

again. a man and woman having sex is fine babies or not. it is natural. a man and women having anal sex is unnatural too. so there I will not be biased.

I am done here. I said what I believe and there is nothing more for me to discuss.