I don't hate the world anymore

This is what it looks like then.

If this is the requirement then there is no orderly solution. The corporation genie is now a pseudo citizen of the world, with citizens rights. It wants to live, it will not lay itself down, how do we ever get it back in the bottle?

The only remedy I can see is in the fact that the genie eats our labor. Stop feeding it.

 

Anger and hate eh?

Heres a shock for everyone...

I hate the majority of the people in the world and am angry with them.

The idea of humanity; a cohesive group of entities that see themselves as brothers and sisters... I love...

But it doesn't exist, and likely never will... At least not as a 'common' thing.

I keep clashing with people because of my attitude and for the way I say things, because I don't believe we should be going out of our way to get along with everyone...

Those who show a clear divergence from what we as a society (as judged by each individual) find as acceptable, are given just as many rights as those who don't, and I think that is likely the most 'evil' thing in the world.

Keep in mind I am not talking about laws here, I don't really give a fuck what the laws say, seems they are about politics and control. I am talking about what we accept around us from other people....

The same people who say that we should be sharing the world, and love each other, not only stand back and watch, but will also defend another persons right to hate each other over random factors or just in in a general sense. Even when those 'people' live their lives directly opposed to the idea of loving and sharing (or have a twisted view of what that means).

At the same time as they accept and defend those people who are making the world what they claim they don't want it to be, they attack, (sometimes openly, sometimes passively, sometimes privately) those who stand up and point out that being part of 'humanity' is a conscious choice that people make, not an inalienable 'right'.

I will never understand how it can be right to hate people on random factors, yet it not be right to hate them for their personal actions and choices, including of what they will and will not accept from others.

To me, that is the most screwed up thing in the world I have ever heard.

These things... will continue to keep me on edge in life and angry at the majority of the world.

However... I have come to a recent decision to try to keep that anger under control in order to be able to explain my position on these things without having the issues distracted by the noise that my anger creates.

 

That's something that I've yet to understand as well. That sort of passive, "I'm okay, you're okay," attitude towards people with hateful or destructive behaviour. I see it this way. People should be accepted, in general, as everyone has the ability to 'live well'. That is, to live in a way that benefits themselves positively, does not harm others, and is respectful of other people in general. However human beings are currently inherently bad by nature as we have been programmed to be. It all started with those fights over who got the bigger cave or the fight over the animal carcass that will feed your family. Today it has evolved into the fight over the fattest pay check and the shiniest car. People are all different, we must respect this if we are to evolve. However when and where does one draw the line between tolerating difference, and not tolerating 'bad' or 'hateful' behaviour? Who will police this? Human behaviour is so fast this would be an incredibly difficult task.

As for consciously being a part of humanity. Humanity as a whole is not bad, it is simply confused because we have not changed our ways over the past thousands of years. We still act like we have to fight over homes, money, women, men, etc. When the reality of it is there is plenty to go around for everyone. Humanity is still caveman, and until humanity evolves, discussions like this will always be theoretical. Humanity must reprogram the way it thinks, create new thought patterns, new choices, responses, ideas, etc. We can not have a revolution until we have evolution. There are people who are a part of humanity that have chosen to live their life in a very simple way. There are many people here who have done so, I believe you (Chronic Tom) are one of them. One can live harmoniously with nature and humanity and still be in tune with the needs of both. One does not have to be a part of the lost and confused in order to be an active part of humanity. Many who live simply have simply dropped out. But what good are they doing? They've turned their back on the problem and said, "I'll have no part of that." They are of no more help than the confused or the ones who create problems. So whether one thinks they are a part, or chooses to be or not to be a part, of humanity, we all are part of it. Humanity is an extension of ourselves. So one can either live and lead by example, or one can be trampled under foot. Be a living example of the evolution you'd like to see. Maybe it will catch on. Be kind, be happy and be love. Your personal world will evolve. And you can have a small active part in helping humanity become less scared and less confused.

 

Each of us does that right now. That is part of my point. Sitting back and waiting for someone else to decide what is bad or hateful, is making a decision to accept it whether it is bad or not.

Really? I don't think I have ever conciously turned my back on someone that I thought was truly a loving and caring being. I've had some of them turn their back on me, because their loving and caring apparently only applies to others, not me (because of my anger, even though it was never once directed at them)... I've turned my back on those that 'claim' to be loving and caring, especially when they try to apply that loving and caring to everyone, regardless of the individuals actions and choices...

Just how much does a person accept before they stop accepting blindly? I don't know where the line is... but I know I have definately crossed it, and have no desire to go back. I haven't dropped out (although on occasion I have, and its been suggested I should )... but I totally 100% understand those that do...

How many times do you think is reasonable for a person getting smacked before they stop reaching a hand out to others?

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

If you add, to those you feel deserve it, then I will agree, otherwise, we just got back to the start of the circle again.

 

It seems to me your comprehension is good.

The idea that we can measure anyone's contribution to society sticks in my throat. All are engaged at some level. Nothing exists in isolation. Relative value is not a reliable metric. To comprehend the interplay of energetic forces gives us a matrix to more reliably affix our position. Superlatives are grandiose visions.
Awe is the proper response to true grandeur.

 

I am what I am... but that is rife with imperfections... some of which can potentially sabotage my ability to continue on the life route I have chosen... mostly by omitting options.

I characterize my sometimes quick temper as a demon... and your response:

This struck me as a bit trivializing what has been from time to time a mighty struggle for me.

It is what it is... and it isn't going any time soon. Even now as time grows short for me to go to work I'm dealing with a malfunctioning keyboard that is threatening to make me look like an idiot and I'm dealing with an overwhelming temptation to slam it against the wall.... as though that is going to help... as though I give a flying fuck what people on an internet forum think. The end result of the deed would necessitate my purchasing a keyboard immediately-- I will need to eventually. I may employ forceful catharsis then anyway.

This is just for example. Pick it apart if you must.

The thing is as much as I'm not looking for advice I'm especially not looking to have my issues trivialized or the manner I choose to characterize them as imaginary. Preaching points that I'm already aware of only creates friction and adds to my growing account of hatred for the world.

I have a number of ways I relieve stress and endeavor to shield people from it. While my methods work they are not fail safe. Again, I am what I am. I'll never change that and I will always have these flaws. My challenge is to find ways of not feeding them lest they grow to cloud out my judgment and interfere with my life- such as it is.

Perhaps you misunderstood that I was using "demons" metaphorically and not as literal soul possessions- which implies a belief system I do not ascribe to.

By the way... just punched my keyboard and the space bar is functioning a little better. Once its successor has been acquired and hooked up- expect me to "release the beast" on this one.

The "beast" is metaphorical, by the way. Please resist the temptation to analyze that.

 

I regret that you interpret it in this way. It is not at all my intention, in fact quite the opposite. I am intimately familiar with an unruly emotional body. I was given to a particularly nervous temperament and I struggled with it mightily as you do now. Our emotional tone is tied directly to our conceptions. We are never upset by a fact, but by the interpretation of a fact. The power of our mind is not trivial in any sense.

Perhaps you misunderstand that I use the terms "demons and beasts" metaphorically as well. There is nothing trivial about you or me. I am a big game hunter.

 

I understand what you are saying here. But when everyone polices, how can anyone ever be let to live the way they choose? If you say someone is bad, and I say someone is good, what are they someone supposed to do? They can come to me and be accepted, or they can go to you and be unaccepted. As long as there is conflict there can never be peace. For humanity to live harmoniously there must be peace. Also, bad or good behaviour does not necessarily make a person a good or bad person. Inmates get released from prison early for 'good behaviour,' but are they good people?

I wasn't referring to you personally. I meant some of those who have 'dropped out' have turned their back on humanity's problems. Not turned their back on loving and caring people. It's easy to just drop out and say, "okay, I'm done. There's nothing I can do." But the problem is still there, and it always will be as long as enough people don't care. Their problems are our problems, and our problems are your problems. Please don't take any of my comments personally (unless I address you personally by screen name). It is not my intention to personally assess anyone here.

I was refering to where one draws the line of morality when it comes to judging humanity as a whole. It must be one of the finest lines. As for the line you were speaking of, the line is where you draw it.

The number of times they do so is up to them. I guess my general answer would be; as many times as they can take it.

Absolutely everyone is deserving of kindness, happiness, and love. Whether you choose to give it to them or receive it from them is up to you. I understand what you meant though. There are people in the world, in the corporate world, who seem to be underserving of it. But always remember, just because those people do bad things does not mean they are bad people. They simple work by a set system (psychological patterns) that they have always worked by and perhaps don't know better. Just as you and I (everyone) may be operating by a system (psychological patterns) that is flawed. Evolution of kindness, acceptance, happiness, love and truth may benefit everyone.

 

You're right. I should have said; what good is one doing when they turn their back on society and say, "Fuck it. I can't make a difference anyways. I'm done."

 

If it causes harm, its bad, if it doesn't, then it isn't. There is no morality issue, there is no issue between what you think it right and wrong and what I do...

How do you decide what causes harm? Ask the person it was done to... If it isn't a person, then is the action cruel?

100% disagreement on this, and that was the point I was making from the start.

I will agree that everyone is born that way... I will agree that as children they remain that way...

Once they are adults, whether or not that is true is totally dependant on the choices they make.

 

On its own this seems simplistically perfect. However putting it into practice could be extremely difficult.

What if they are adults who were taught wrong and so that's all they know. Are they bad for being a disciplined follower of what they were taught?

 

Give me an example of how it could be extremely difficult.

I don't care and neither do you... If you have a child and someone kills them, does knowing that the person was raised to think it was okay, make it okay that they killed your child?

If it isn't okay that they do it to your child, is it okay if they do it to someone elses child instead?

We all have crappy stuff in our past, using them as an excuse is not acceptable.

Stop and think about this for a minute... if someone takes and raises a bunch of kids to think that killing people born on tuesday is okay, and they come and kill someone you love, does it mean you should just shrug and say oh well, they didn't know any better?

If you want to argue that it is the fault of the person who raised them, great, call it their fault... But you know what, whomever is at fault, there is now a group of kids who think it is okay to kill you if you are born on tuesday...

Do we as a society sit back and shrug and let them go killing everyone born on a tuesday, just because it 'isn't their fault'?

 

We'd have to create and instill a whole new set of laws that can be carried out by citizens. Where would we put all those people that have done wrong by any given person. Prison? I guarantee 'crime' rates would soar. Everytime the word ****** is said and the person is cut off in traffic, that would be a punishable hate crime to most. Everytime someone is physically pushed and insulted, that could be punishable 'physical abuse'. Some people think that verbal abuse is a punishable crime. We'd have more offenders than non-offender. Morality varies between every single indidvidual. I could have someone not offended by my actions, then turn around and offend you and be punished for it. Not to mention the billions of potential copyright infringements that would be carried out. And what then would two people who got in a physical altercation do? Send each other to jail every time? The issue of punishing people for differerences of morality is much too vast to be policed by every individual. Example;
You're crossing the street, I'm driving towards you, I have the right-of-way. You see me coming, panic, and run towards the other side, tripping when you get there, breaking your leg. You then charge me with 'reckless endangerment'. Even though I had the right-of-way, you still press charges because you feel that you were harmed by my car that may have been going 5 km's over the speed limit. How many people in a case like this would press charges if they had some sort of moral handle over the law? I'd be willing to bet 9 out of 10 or more.

As much as I agree with you here is my answer; the answer to the question you asked would depend on the person you asked. If it was my child, no, it is not okay. If you asked the murderer if what he did was okay, he'd tell you yes with a straight face. This is another example of why individuals cannot have police type of power over everyone else. This murderer could potentially go free depending on the jury, which we'd hope had no murderers on it.

It's never okay to harm any child.

No, you wouldn't just shrug it off, you'd mourn and be angry. But we can teach those people that it is not okay. Re-imprinting is evolution.

 

The whole first part of that, is noise... The reason I say it is noise, is because you are taking laws, and calling them right and wrong and then applying the punishments of today and asking what good they are as the basis for it all.

The idea that we would have to change a whole bunch of things in order to change a bunch of things... well, I will hope that just me rephrasing it as such will answer it.

If I walk up to you and punch you in the face, that is causing harm, if I say, you are a stupid shit, it isn't causing harm... That shouldn't be difficult...

If someone calls someone a ******, that does not count as harm any more then calling them an apple would. However, as a society, we have accepted that it DOES cause harm, therefor we should do something about it.

Can people make mistakes? Of course, and if the effect of that mistake isn't permanent then the 'punishment' shouldn't be either, but if the person repeats the same mistake over and over and over again, then at some point you have to step in and say allowing this person to repeat this is causing harm.

If it's something that causes permanent harm (generally what is considered a capital crime today, although some should be added and changed to that list), then that person should never be given the chance to repeat it, no matter the reason they did it.

A lot of what you perceive to be as confusing in how to apply something like this to real life, comes from your insistence that everyone regardless of their choices are equal and deserve love and respect....

If a person makes a choice to step outside the bounds of what we (as a people) decide is acceptable, they are making a choice to be outside of our society. In other words, if someone chooses (for whatever reason and with any background) to harm a child, they are proclaiming that they aren't part of our society, and we should not be giving them the protection that our society represents.

As for how we come to a decision about what we accept and what we don't, we do that simply by talking to each other. Not by waiting for someone else to tell us what is right and wrong.

Oh, and as for the 'this is simplistic'....

It is supposed to be... it requires a fucked up and corrupt society to complicate it.

 

Aside from what you consider 'noise' I don't think that we are in disagreement here at all.

Haven't you made the decision to live outside of society? There are people, in the corporate world, who would consider your way of life to be deviant. You see, it's all a matter of perception.

Again I think we agree here. Only I would call it a confused society.

You're very right, this is where the confusion enters the picture. However I will never wane in this belief.

 

Apparently I should have been clearer, if someone steps outside of society by choosing to cause harm to others...

Then things will never change, because you choose for them not to.

 

Is change choosing to hang on to anger, hatred and judgement? Or is it choosing to move forward with tolerence, understanding, and love?

 

Tolerance, understanding and love, directed to those that make choices that are the epitome of the things that you don't want around you is one of the most evil things there is in the world. It is those very things that allow the things you rail against to exist.

Anger, hatred and judgement?

Anger and hatred towards those who make choices that go against (note that is not 'differ from') what you want in the world IS the way to make change...

Judgment? Are you shocked that I expect you to make judgments?

Just what is it that you think living life and making choices is about? It is about making judgments... look at the available facts, and make a judgment... look at the actions and words of a person and make a judgment...

Life without judgment, is blindly holding on to what there is.

Beware any who ever tell you that judgment is wrong or an evil thing, for what they truly mean is that you should only listen to their judgments...

 

How can love be evil?

Love causes change. Anger and hatred cause war and conflict. War and conflict is change. Just not the change most want.

This just sounded like noise to me.

 

Whenever it is used as a stick to either encourage or prop up things you consider evil.

I'm not surprised... for it to sound like more then noise, you would need to have an open mind about the subject.

I would rather you had ideas that you could support with more then a vow of your undying belief...

You make an active choice to avoid feeling responsible for the world around you by claiming that everyone, regardless of their actions or intentions are good and deserve love.

That very choice however, makes you responsible for there not being the change that you want to see in the world.