I can prove the existance of God. Right now.

Yeal:

Because it would need the body to go beyond death also, which it doesn't.



Relaxxx:

lol

Ouch! That transport truck was no metaphor!

 

Apparently you need to also brush up on the sciences of nueral cognizance. What if I told you, that you could amplify the stimulation of physical feeling, to the point of mapping out your entire cranial activity functionality, accross the strand of your very being, and reroute duplications of artificially amplified replications of various other stimulae, or the precise one you feel which causes such discovery?
WOuld you tell me I'm insane? Delusional? I don't know what I"m talking about?......You don't know what I"m talking about?
That's when I say, refer to my opening statements of advisory repliance. And the thought cycles should begin to spin up laudable acquiescence.

 

Yeal, you are no one to call anyone self-delusional or idiotic. You have made an idiot of yourself. Me, a 16 year old kid with a C- average in grade 11, has followed this thread, its opinions and scientific concepts perfectly. Time and time again you have dodged the question, changed the meaning of it, or called the question-asker idiotic.

You do no understand many fundamental scientific concepts, and try to fit god in the gaps. I could disprove your every post with fact, but that would take time i don't have, and relaxx has already done a great job.

The one unsolved question of this thread is what was there before the big bang? The following is the opinion I have formed over my few years.

Possibility 1- Quantum vacuum theory (yeal, stop reading here)
The "quantum vacuum" is the simultaneous appearance and disappearance of subatomic particles, seemingly from nothing. This is common knowledge. What isn't common knowledge is that sometimes once in a long, long while, fluctuations in this pattern occur. Sometimes a whole atom might pop up, out of nowhere created by the quantum vacuum. Give it long enough, and the starting material of the big bang will appear out of nowhere. Remember, time has NO meaning before the big bang. There is nothing for time to take an effect on, nothing around to record its passing. Unwritably large amounts of time could have passed, and no record of it left... except for the objects created via the quantum vacuum. This is my favorite theory.

2nd possibility- The universe has always been, and always will be. Sometimes called the "closed universe" theory. Remember that nobody was around to count the failed attempts at life.


Time is truly much larger than we can possibly imagine. If either of my two favorite theories are correct, close your eyes and imagine the biggest number you can. Lets call that number X. X^X^X^X^X now imagine that is an atom. Now imagine all the atoms in the universe. That is the scope of time that passes between these larger quantum fluctuations (most of which is random garbage) and who knows how many fluctuations it has taken to produce the big bang.

 

Zeppelin

Time has no dimension

I like the idea that the universe has taken all time, and none at all.
In other words, time is essentially only consciousness of motion.

An open (infinite) universe.

 

I like and understand the poinst you guys have brought up, and a lot of it actually makes sense. I like the theory of time, I have come to the same conclusion, pretty much.

But the point of the thread keeps being dodged by questions about time and space, but all I'm trying to say is that conscious, self-aware, living, breathing beings, down to cells, cannot form from just atoms.

I agree that the fundamentals of cells can form, the nucleic acids and the ingrediants, but what makes them all come together and say "Hey, lets make a living cell!" How the hell does that happen? Energy isn't alive. Time isn't alive, so how can a living cell be the product of time and energy? I have never heard this theory before, I don't understand it, and I don't think you guys do either. If you google "How life formed" You get a bunch of very fuzzy guesses, with a lot of loopholes in them. WE DO NOT KNOW HOW LIFE FORMED!

Relaxxx:
""I'm still trying to get over your absolutely fucktarded reasoning about the brain loosing no matter at death which again proves your complete lack of insight as to how it functions even after weÕve gone and explained LIFE and CONSIOUSNESS to you.""


I don't understand how you don't get what I was saying. It made perfect sense and was clear as crystal. How does it prove my complete lack of understanding by stating that consciousness is not a physical thing? That makes absolutely perfect, perfect sense.

You guys theorys make sense too, but there's loopholes in them about how these things can happen. like energy turning into something self-aware.

Ridicule away, like I didn't know a thread with the title "I Can Prove The Existance Of God" in the Athiest and anostic forum would draw negative attention.

 

If i understand correctly, you either mean that time only exists when there is a concious being there to observe it, or that it always has been and always will be there. I dont follow the none at all part, could you please explain?

Yeal- My opinion on the formation of life from dead atoms is that we can trace all life back to a single cell. Evolutionists say that sometimes single cells CAN form in the proper conditions, with the proper ingredients around. The thing that was different about this single cell than others that may have formed, is that it learned the trick of self-replication, and through improvements it never stopped. It is hard to explain, but if you can get your hands on the book "a short history of nearly everything" by bill bryson, p.287-302 explain it much better than I can.

 

Yeah I understand how it's hard to explain, I can really get out my idea about it correctly either.

I know that when the proper ingrediants are there cells CAN form, but how do all these chemicals say Ahh lets make a cell!

 

I mean the former and the latter. Infinity can have no time for itself. The universe (infinity) is all time (eternity). All time is no time, as it has no actuality beyond consciousness.

Consciousness has always been and will be, because it is (assuming infinity.)

Believe me, I'd like to reach a singularity of meaning, but to grasp a paradox, one has to keep on grasping it

 

"God As The Uncaused First Cause"

You realize that this debate has raged for about 100 years and is about as boring as Trent Reznor's childhood, right?

 

A debate?! lol What, are you agnostic or something?

 

sooo. this is just my understanding of your theory, tell me if i'm incorrect.
basically, you say that atoms cannot turn into conscious beings.
you cite, really, no proof to this supposition, other than your lack of seeing it first hand.
now, that doesn't prove that atoms and other (supposedly) inorganic matter cannot go on to create, of their own accord and without outside intervention, organic matter, it just proves that you haven't seen it.
in which case.
A) it's really rare that it happens.
or B) it happens on a level that is not immediately detectable to you or me (it's microscopic).

course, it all comes down to random chance and time. if you got a long enough time scale, everything is possible, and that some chemicals would randomly form to create the first 'sentient beings' (for my purposes i define sentient as being able to proactively react to it's environment, so ameobas, bacteria, and other enclosed cells are considered 'sentient'), and added to that a long enought time frame and evolution and you get people like you and me.

so a good analogy (you seem to like those, even though they are usually a critical reasoning fallacy) would be a person in a house. the man runs all over the house and helps in it's upkeep, then one day the man dies. no great physical change has happened, only the movement has ceased, and that's the end of consciousness(which in our experience is nerve cells forming connections and carrying electrical charges).

k'ay, all better now?

 

...and that some chemicals would randomly form to create the first 'sentient beings'...

I can see your train of thought, but how can these chemicals turn into something that has a will and self-awareness, and a consciousness? A non-sentient chemical forms with another and it becomes sentient?

 

I'm gonna keep on because I know that we agree on alot more than you seem to think.

Deja quote: You're confusing god with everything.

that's exactly it. 'God' is just another name for 'everything'. The classical attribues ascribed to God are 'infinite' and 'eternal'. That means 'everything' that ever was, is and will ever be, everywhere without exception.

If you coined a term to describe what you believe to be the ultimate nature of reality and this name was passed down through generations until the real meaning was forgotten and people started to believe that this thing was something other than the thing that you had originally percieved when you gave it its name in the first place, would that name still mean the same thing to you? I believe it would (assuming you were still alive and about 1000 years old). And the other people who were around would disagree with you on what that thing was when you mentioned it's name. When I say 'God', All I mean is 'Truth', 'Nature', 'Reality', Existence'.

What this means for us is that we are all God. God is all. We are all one, because everything in the universe is connected. There is no action without reaction. energy is not created or destroyed, it just changes form. No man is an island. Just like different organs and cells in the human body do not exist independently or in isolation. All the different parts of the universe interact and function together an one ultimate being. It is a conscious being because it contains my consciousness, your consciousness, everyone and everything elses consciousness throughout the universe, so it is all-knowing. Our consciousnesses are interconnected as any other form of matter or energy. ie. your consciousness affects your life and your actions, thoughts and behaviour. That affects my consciousness as I am reading your posts on the forum. The consciousness of God contains all you have ever concieved and all you will concieve of.

I believe that understanding that we are all one in God is important because it gives us an imperative for life. Realise your divine nature through love and compassion to all beings and treat others as if they were yourself. When we do this we enter paradise. Simple as that. It's nothing new. people have been telling us this stuff for thousands of years. No one listens though, because they keep using the 'G' word.

 

Ok, here we go again, my toenails are no more part of a greater consciousness than the shorts I just tossed in the laundry. We may all be part of the same energy but there is absolutely nothing that suggests that all of our consciousnesses are working together as one great consciousness and on top of that it would be one fucked up bipolar, self-destructive, sodomistic masochist train wreck of a consciousness.



Where the hell is this all knowing information we're all supposed to be intimately connected with? We don’t even know if there is other intelligent life that evolved outside out solar system. We may assume there is but by what right do we assume there is a supernatural conscious link to these being that we don't even know about???!!!



Interacting with other organisms on this planet isn't exactly what I'd call some sort of greater consciousness. I believe the Gaia hypotheses states that all organisms on earth act as one life form that works together in harmony and can actually heal itself. This is not any consciousness, this is again NATURAL selection. Yes, many organisms help and rely on other organisms because this is how they evolved for billions of years. The world would not be full of organisms that don't work in harmony because all those have gone extinct by NATURAL SELECTION!!



There is simply no evidence whatsoever of any greater all encompassing supernatural consciousness, there just isn't!!

 

I can proove the existence of nitwits, but that's a long story and I don't want to get into. Get back school, you need it.

 

If 'god' is just a property that can be applied to everything than 'god' loses all meaning as a distinguishing property. basically, if everything is purple, thne the idea of color is meaningless.

 

basically, it takes a shit ton of time to go from simple chemcials to complex amino acids to complex protien structures to complex DNA. basically, as long as something is self replicating, the self repiclation is imperfect, and there are selective pressures to ensure that not all the self replicating structures (and their offspring) surivive than you get evolution.

 

Classical mechanics cannot naturally accommodate consciousness... However, Quantum Mechanics can.

 

I honestly don't know why half you guys are in this forum if you're not interested in exploring these different perceptions, but for you Relaxx, only God is all-knowing, we are not. God knows all we know, but we as individuals, do not know all that God knows. We are one, but separated. This is the paradox of human existence. Is a cell at the end of your big toe conscious that it is the same being as a cell on your scalp. I doubt it. In fact I doubt that it is conscious of much at all, maybe only that it is alive and it needs nutrients that it absorbs through it's cell wall and that's about it. Maybe you wouldn't even call that consciousness as it is so basic. You, as a complete human being, with a brain and all have much greater consciousness than this single cell but you are still limited. God, as the entire living universe has much greater consciousness than you, but your consciousness is part of that.
I don't understand your 'Purple' thing at all Eugene. God is not a 'property' of everything, God IS everything.

I think I read on another thread, that 'Science' just means 'Knowledge', from the Latin (or is it Greek?) 'Scientas'? I bet that ancient priests referred to their understanding of their God or Gods as 'Scientas'. I think it's important that we don't ditch 'God', just because we think we have a better or newer model of ultimate reality. Understanding that both are the same thing will help us learn much more about it.

 

snake,
don't get all pissy at ppl in the ATHEIST forum for disagreeing with your ridiculous notions. they retort with LOGIC. u DON'T.
i'm a flying spaghetti monster. believe in ME. i ooze yummy yummy tomatoe sauce goodness. u'll never go hungry if u worship me.