I can prove the existance of God. Right now.

How do you "understand" the Universe expanding into empty space when this empty space has never been seen? I mean isn't that your same basis for not believing in God...the fact you've never physically seen proof of God?

The balloon analogy doesn't even fit being that a balloon does not expand into empty space. It didn't "go over my head." If anything, I was looking for a reason to take it seriously. The only way it makes any kind of sense is if our Universe is a small part of something much more massive.

God is not on trial and I'm not a lawyer so the burden of proof isn't on me. I know God is real, you assume God isn't. And sorry I'm not too familiar with that BFP shit you keep holding onto but my whole point is irregardless to how rain has been explained, that explanation obviously isn't too concrete an argument against God if all it does is explain an event after the fact. The explanation of weather does nothing to prove it's not a phenomenal occurrence. The flawless prediction of weather and/or the ability to control it would prove it isn't phenomenal. Funny, there are accounts of ancient civilizations performing rain dances and actually having success with affecting the weather. I don't know how true it is but then again, neither do you. What we do know is those same civilizations that performed rain dances did so while worshiping a God so if it is by any chance true, it only further supports the idea that weather is an act of God.

Like I said, the idea of ancient Gods hasn't been disproved at all. It's just been disregarded as mankind began to learn more and become too smart for its own good. Only a being as arrogant as a modern day human being would develop "theories" of how shit happened despite obvious loopholes simply because it "makes the most sense" instead of admitting some things will never be known.

 

It would be impossible to prove or disprove the existence of any god, since by definition gods don't lend themselves to empirical verification or refutation. To say it is "arrogant" to develop theories of how things happen seems downright ignorant, because that's how we learn. I agree human knowledge is limited and tentative, but to say it's nothing is extreme and dysfunctional. We need to keep developing our theories, testing them, and not taking them too seriously. But I think the enterprise of inquiry in general and science in particular is the most impressive thing about humans, and those who extoll ignorance are attacking the most important gift God has given us. And was it you, or am I confusing you with someone else, who was talking about the Observer Effect? How do you think we got that?

 

dudes, believing in a god or not believing in a god are just two different opinions. no one knows for sure either way and neither idea can ever be proven. it just comes down to what makes sense to you. evangelical christians/atheists are all very silly

 

The Observer Effect states that no phenomenon can exist without an observer. What does that have to do with a theory? Last time I checked, that was a fact.

I found God thru a spiritual journey, that's how I know God is real. That's not something I can prove to anyone so I don't bother. I just point out the flaws in nonbelievers' logic while all they do to me in return is constantly repeat the fact I cannot provide proof of God to the visible eye. Atheists argue as if the fact a human being cant prove God exists by saying "ayo God, do me a favor and show yourself so these people can believe and stfu" is enough to prove there is no God.

Just out of curiosity, how do you nonbelievers expect a believer to prove God exists beyond the shadow of a doubt?

 

In science, theory and fact work together. Theories generate facts. Facts test theories. The Observer Effect is a product of theory that so far seems to be holding up, although not in the extravagant form put forward by New Agers. Many of the things we used to think of as "facts" have since turned out not to be. All human knowledge is tentative.

As a matter of "fact", I'm a born again Christian who also had a spiritual journey, so I have some idea what you're talking about. You can never prove that God exists beyond a shadow of a doubt. If you could, there would be no need for faith. I don't think humans can prove anything beyond a shadow of a doubt, although some things can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I'd put evolution in that category.

 

i agree ^

but i dont belive in god (not that im dissing you for being a beliver or anything, i perfectly respect the people who do) but that really makes no sense.

plus, if god is so great, then why did he let awful things happen??
like:
>>WAR
>>Genocides
>>People freaking starving to death in africa!!

so u definently need some better proof of the existance if god (still not dissing anyone who belives in him)

 

Beautiful

 

I respect both of these stances.

Thanks for putting forth an intelligent argument btw. It's much more refreshing than the "if God is so real, prove it" nonsense that gets said when doubters run out of words.

God is not responsible for war, genocides, nor people starving to death in Africa. Man is solely responsible for all 3 that's why it's up to man to fix it. The same way your children will never learn if you never let them figure out their problems on their own, we will never learn if God is there to save the day every time we fuck up.

And LMAO @ that quote saying that life just appeared out of nowhere due to sheer luck and billions of years to work with.

 

I agree with the first sentence.. then you go way too new age


Force of Consciousness.... there is no logic or evidence to point to such a thing

unless you care to present some.... you're just putting a twist on another type of religion another belief system...based on woo-woo


the past is real... in fact the lessons we learn in it shape how we interrupt the present

 

what if?

 

The past is not an illusion in the sense that it never happened. Of course the past happened, that's the only way to get to the present. It's an illusion in the sense that it doesn't exist anywhere in the Universe outside our minds. The future is an illusion because there will never be a point where you're living in the future. Tomorrow is the future. Will tomorrow come?? Most likely. But when it does get here, it will automatically become the present. Therefore while the future may appear to come all the time, it really never comes at all.

Far as the force of Consciousness goes, everything is a product of Consciousness. We tend to think of Consciousness as only being displayed when conduct similar to human behavior occurs. If something walks, breathes, etc then we assume it's conscious. Anything else is unconscious. Our Earth is a Conscious, living being. It rotates around the Sun on a specific axis at a specific speed in a specific direction and has been doing so for billions of years. You mean to tell me that's not a Conscious effort?? Same can be said about anything in our Universe from our Sun to our Milky Way to all other galaxies and even down to atoms and subatomic particles. Everything is a product of Consciousness. Just because it doesn't resemble mankind doesn't mean it isn't.

 

the whole thing is Jq ... that all this happens regardless of us..God .. or FSM

 

God and Consciousness are the same.

Perhaps this will explain it better than I have.

http://www.eoni.com/~visionquest/library/godconsc.html

 

but we are changing

http://rense.com/general53/dna.htm

 

"Science" is not a fact to be proven or disproven, you don't even make sense. Science is a process of excepting the most likely explanations based on hard facts, physical evidence, replicable experiments, logic and common sense. As we expand our knowledge base and make more discoveries we develop new theories and disprove old ones. Science is not emotionally attached and hung up on unreasonable theories and discredited writings thousands of years old. Science is evolving and progressive.

Spirituality and Gods are definitely something, they are illusions and dreams, misunderstandings and ignorance. Why should anyone attempt to disprove they exist beyond that when no one can prove they are any more than that? Such nonsense, I haven't heard anyone disprove the flying spaghetti monster either!

No one's ever disproven spirits! Case closed? Well that settles it, we all better run to the James Randi Education Foundation and collect our million dollar prises!

 

yaaa man

http://www.wikiality.com/Pastafarian

though I really like Bumba.. it kind of sums up mankind in a way like no other

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?lastnode_id=1466050&node_id=1466045

Or pick a god
http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/index.php?_search

 

There has been countless sightings and proof spirits exist so you can miss me with that. And anyone who knows meditation knows how real spirituality is. Have you tried it?

And you know damn well what I meant by science. I meant scientific conclusions/assumptions/theories/etc, not "science" in its most literal sense. Science sets out to make sense out of everything but when it comes to shit that is not known and never will be known, they feel the need to attach some bogus theory onto it anyway. That is not common sense in any way shape or form. Common sense would tell you that if matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed and matter/energy is the building block of the Universe then the Universe can neither be created nor destroyed so how in the fuck does it have a birthday?

I respect science for what its worth, which is actually a whole lot. But it never has and never will explain everything. People take life for granted and easily forget how every single thing we witness is part of the phenomenon called the Universe. No phenomenon can exist without an observer. I got that from science, not spirituality and damn sure not religion.

 

Countless sighting, countless STORIES, ZERO Proof, Zero Evidence.

When you understand the human mind and human nature and realize what we see isn't always real and what we say isn't always true, then you willl know there is no proof because they are just illusions and lies.

 

i believe in a soul, but not god. life force has been measured in humans. look it up.

 

thetans? Yeah seen that on South Park "trapped in the closed". Funny shit, what some believe.