I can prove the existance of God. Right now.

snakeeyes

No.

No.

True.

Yes.

No, as that 'something' is everything.

You're confusing god with everything.

I think you'll see that problem go unsolved so long as you drag god around with you.

lol .

Everything is not within anything but itself.

All experience shows us otherwise.

 

An appropriate response.

 

You can't just call something God! There is a definition of God and it is the classical all knowing, all powerful supernatural consciousness. A definition that originated from discredited old books full of lies. You creationists call atheists egomaniacs but you would sooner place your FAITH in a LIE than admit mankind just doesn't know the answers.

There is absolutely no evidences whatsoever of a supernatural conscious God but there is plenty of evidence that suggests there is no God for anyone capable of being objective and rationalize simple concepts such as natural selection..

What we do know about consciousness is that is a very complex product of billions of interworking cells, neurons and chemicals. People have this illusion that their minds are somehow spiritual and supernatural because they do not comprehend or even accept the reality of their fragile grey matter. How does ones consciousness have this supernatural link with this fairytale spirit world when consciousness can be modified or obliterated so easily with a few milligrams of various drugs.

A supernatural extremely complex conscious God that IS the entire universe and always was is somehow supposed to be a more logical explanation than an explosion of energy from a currently unknown source. So everything is conscious God, He's killing billions in earthquakes, floods and droughts, causing men to slaughter each other by millions because he is everything.

I guess God is bipolar!

He's consciously maintaining the electron orbits in all our matter down to the zeptosecond all the while proving his megalomaniac might by burning images in toast and woodgrains to prove how great his is. Oh but what's this, the moon is drifting away from earth. Hello God, stop playing with toast for a second we need the moon where it is!

Intelligent design my ass! Supernatural consciousness my ass!!

 

okay you know when you talk or think about something for a long time one day, the next morning you think about it again and it seems really strange
or you write a word out over and over again, and after a while the word looks really weird, thats kinda whats happening to me about this thread.
after a while the concept of a high power or a 'god' seems really strange, and the concept of NOT having a higher power or god seems really strange.
i must admit though, i am with relaxxx on this one, you CANT just call something god. there is legitmet scientific proof contradicting many beleifs behind religions so now all we need is some proof from the other party.
whatever the arguement comes to, both relaxxx and yeal have their heads wrapped around their beliefs and are digging deep...pretty fucking impressive

 

Relaxxx:

God is obviously a little bit completely wasted.

 

Word.

 

man i really feel sorry for you relaxx. Spirituality is all i have in my life. I dont believe in a god. no i dont. but i do believe that nothing is random and behind the entire universe their is some kind of Guiding Organizing Design process.

The capacity of our mind is larger than the entire universe.

 

OK so here's what we know...

The universe used to be compressed in a tiny ball of matter, and later exploded into what we call the Big Bang.

Here's what we don't know...

We don't know where life and self-awareess came from.

We don't know where this Big Bang came from.


I am not going to try to argue back with anyone about this, because no one can win this argument. An intelligent person may ask, Where did the Big Bang come from?

Answer: No one knows.


If you truly think about it for at least an hour, you will find yourself in a paradox of a neverending train of thought consisting of "Where did our universe come from, where did the Big Bang come from, where did the Big Bang's creator come from. and so on."

Since we are dealing with the word Infinity when talking about the universe and life, it is strange that there would be no God. Infinity is something humans will never be able to grasp on their own.

I think it is very wise to believe in a God of any kind. Here's why.

Just in case there is a God (because NO ONE KNOWS!), and you die, just that faith could send you to whatever afterlife you deserve. If you don't believe in a God, your screwed after you die.

I like believing in a God, it makes me happy. When I doubt my God, it makes me sad and makes me feel lonely and unsheltered in the universe.

The reason it's called faith is because your taking a chance beliving in something that may not exist. And you get ultimately rewarded for it!

 

This is how I look at the theory of creation.
The nature of the universe is that everything comes from something, so it makes things easier for us to just say that some guy "did it".
Anyone else agree?

 

even though we DONT know how all this started, dont you think it seems a little weird to just say
'god created the world'
'no he didnt, the big bang did'
'oh right..well god created the big bang'

if maybe god was a little less personified, like not all talked up in the bible and very strict about what he does, but lenient when it comes to what he created and a little more just plain spiritual...then maybe, a plausible answer could be given

 

butterfly

How could fate be what it is without a grain of chaos? There is no 'guiding' design!

The universe is original.

lol

 

stunning

 

About the only thing I agree with is everything comes from something. If there was actually such a thing as nothing then nothing would ever exist. We are living proof that there is no such thing as nothing. Even space is something, it is at the very least an avenue for energy to flow. What there is absolutely no proof of is that EVERYTHING is part of an all knowing supernatural consciousness.

We know that complexity developed over time, we absolutely know this as fact. So if God is EVERYTHING then GOD must be more intelligent now, more complex now than he was at the dawn of his energy burst! Was he an infant "God" did he have gas? Does this compute at all with an infinite, always existing supernatural consciousness? No, it doesn't compute at all!

 

That isn't wise, it is nonsense! What kind of fucking sadistic egomaniac God is going to deny a truly good life, a truly good person just because that person didn't acknowledge his existence. Especially in a world where God and war go hand in hand like bread and butter!? This is pure religious propaganda nonsense. The biggest fear of organized religion is for you not to fear God, if you don't have that fear of God then you can't be their tool. Next thing you got this moral superiority complex from following a morally flawed book of lies and before you know it, you're supporting the genocide of another race like the morally blind right wing Bush supporters. The first step in living a good life is to completely let go of the morally flawed religious propaganda bullshit.

 

I'll repeat myself, you're rewarded for faith in God, not just for being a good person.

I guess we'll both see in the end, eh?

 

And BTW, I do support Bush sort of. I think Muslims should stop blowing people the fuck up. Every other religion can tolerate others. Christians can be friends with hindus. Atheists can be friends with Bhuddists with out a problem.

Muslims have it written in their Koran that whoever's religion differs from theirs should die. GO BUSH! IDC if hes a war criminal (which he is) I hate fucking Muslims for blowing everyody the fuck up.

 

h'okay, i've been nice for a little while. now it's time to *POP* your cheery fuckin bubble.
A) the big bang is just a theory, it's the best theory they've got right now.
basically, the universe is expanding, so maybe, sometime in the past, it was all bunched up together, and it's basically true.

B) you didn't even come close to proving god's existence in your op. you basically just proved your own ignorance as to the origins of complex life. you say that your gap in your understanding must be god, because otherwise you wouldn't understand it. it's like saying that planets are held in orbit because of angels cause you don't understand gravitation.

C) more people have been killed in Jesus' name than any other in history. Christianity is one of the most brutal religions to ever colonize the earth (and pretty much the only religion to colonize the earth), when the crusaders entered Jerusalem they slaughtered every last man, woman and child, they say the streets ran ankle deep in blood that day. It's just since the castration of the church in the western world have they been anything approaching nice and tolerant.

D) to assume that time has a begining or an end, or that it has always worked the way we experience is human thinking. once you think of time as any other dimension, then "create" has no meaning, shit just happens.


I don't really believe in the big band (in the conventional sense). Basically, i think that the universe is a system like any other, where chaos and complexity are basically unavoidable. soooo:

in the begining the universe was a ten (or so) dimensioal abstract where all the science fit together nicely and the energy was as orderly as we could concieve of it to be. then shit happened.
and the universe collapsed into (eventually) what we percieve to be the run of the mill four dimensional (or three and half, depending on your perspective) universe we know today. the loss of "space" meant that the energy had to expand.

the increasing chaos led to the formation of stars, then planets, then (in our case) life, eventually intelligent life evolved, and later social life, and then you had a bunch of bags of water sitting around trying to figure out where they came from.

 

i'm wondering what your exactly talking about. are yout talking about pure awareness or self awareness? see they are very different. animals are aware, but not self aware. they don't know that they individually exist. they have no idea that they are "alive" and no idea they are going to die. but still, they are aware. awareness basically means to experience. notice, no matter what particular thought or feeling you are having, it is the same consciousness within you that experiences it. self awareness is a different story. see the reason animals aren't self aware is because their brains have not evolved to the point of producing conceptual thougth, like ours. the human trait of self awareness makes us feel like we are special, like we are individuals that exist independently. but really, these thoughts are very complex energy transformations in our brain which are projected onto our consciousness, no better or worse than the primal instincts which animals experience. so you, the person who you identify as, your ego - is not really the "you" that is aware, it is just a collection of thought patterns which your awareness, the very basic awareness (at least i believe) that exists in all things, experiences day after day, giving you the impression taht you exist. now i am not disagreeing with you because i think that this capability of self-awareness exists for a reason and was consciuosly created at a certain point in evolution. see i believe that all matter is essentially consious, and out of chaos came form, from which molecules collecte and eventually created DNA, the smallest intelligent structure. now DNA was a very slow creater, but it created a new body which is much faster - us. so what i'm saying is you are right, but i believe that free will, and the true "self" lies somewhere far beyond and greater than what we know of as "you" or "me".

 

oh what i'm saying is that now the organism, us, is in control of its own evolution, not just following comands from DNA. in a sense, we are the newest conscious embodiment of DNA, and we have new tools to further the evolutionary process. the future is in our hands, but we must look (be aware) far beyond ourselves for guidance

 

B is a very good point, but the thing is, the reason I don't blame angels for orbiting planets is because I know there is gravity. The reason I blame God for the creaton of life is because we do not know how life formed. Use your head, I've said it at least a hundred times. Sentient beings cannot emerge from non-sentient matter. For example, a carbon atom cannot simply snap and start to "Think" and be aware of it's own existance.

C is absolutely true. Thing is, I don't care what happened hundreds of years ago unless it effects me now. Muslims are the people killing us NOW. So I care.