I <3 My Marriage=Domestic Abuse?

I am neither dodging a point nor putting words into anyones mouth.

The guy, along with you, have been quite clear that you feel there is justification for abusing a spouse. To make matters worse, you continue to try to defend the point.

It doesn't matter in any way shape or form what she did or didn't do to 'provoke' that sort of reaction.

Let me say it again, seems you seem to be having difficulty grasping this...

THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR USING VIOLENCE OF ANY TYPE ON YOUR SPOUSE.

To argue otherwise, in anyway, is to loudly proclaim that you think there are times that it is okay for you to be violent to a person you are supposed to be sharing your life with.

And as for your 'idea' that I was putting words into someones mouth, perhaps you should go back and re-read these posts, especially the ones where you repeatedly say I in some way said her innocence or guilt in this matters in any way concerning the reaction she got from her spouse.

 

sigh...marry me...

 

lol. he looks like the dude from bones. or is it the mentalist. i dunno...but one of the main characters from one of the 10000 crime shows on tv looks like that dude.

 

Hahahahaha.. . . seriously dude? Did you just say that?

Not only did you just respond to me posting the exact words of the guy, which in no way said the abuse was justified, by saying that he said it was justified. .. but I have said exactly that myself - I believe my words were: "No, the choking is almost certainly not justified" - except I mentioned one case where it might be - that is, where the girl attacked first. As I said, its not likely but its possible, and you don't now that that isn't the case. but you ASSUME it is. Either that or you just apparently don't care if it is. You just further prove my point that abuse will only be taken seriously if it is committed by a man.

You are lying to yourself and to us when you say you aren't putting words in anyone's mouth and that we have claimed the violence was justified. Blatantly. I have not been making the case that hurting this woman is justified, but all of your responding arguments are based on the accusation that this is exactly what I have done. Could you show me where I or the other poster said this? Beyond the one case I just mentioned, which if you'll choose to focus on it, I challenge you to explain why abuse is only wrong when committed by men? You can't, can you? But you'll probably go on and claim I DID say this yet again against all evidence and logic.

For clarity, let me restate what I've been saying.
The choking is NOT justified except int he narrow circumstances I've mentioned (that is if the girl attacked first).

While this is not likely, it is possible; we are given no indication of whether or not she did any attacking in the information provided.

Everyone is treating this girl as though she never did anything wrong. She is a saint that has been attacked by some brutal monster. This could be true. But we don't know, you don't know.

YOu've filled in this blank with your own assumptions. She is a victim so she couldn't possibly have done anything wrong.

My case is against people who see things in black and white. Somebody did something bad to somebody else. So that person is infinitely bad and completely evil. The other person is wholly good, some kind of angel or something. We're talkinga bout humans here. This is rarely if ever the case. What bothers me is people who have to simplify and categorize things like this. This way of thinking is what causes violence in the first place. Its what maintains popular support for wars.

Its how women were able to be mostly subjugated for much of history.

Chew on that.

Have you found the part where I said the guy was justified for choking the girl yet?

 

And for the record, the reason I am pursuing this argument so vehemently is my distress at seeing the one person in this thread who actually dared to post a thought-out statement, not a gut reaction, being brushed off as an abuser. Thats a horrible thing to call somebody, and in this case horribly thoughtless.

"Hmm. . . your post wasn't limited to hatred for this man and complete and utter sympathy and love for the girl based solely on the fact that she was a victim of abuse at his hands? Therefore it must be in direct contradiction to what the rest of us have been saying. Therefore you're an abusive scumbag."

Black and white. You're either with us or against us.

Yes, I'm putting words in your mouth, but I feel they are a rather accurate recreation of your point, exaggerated for dramatic effect at most. If I'm wrong, please explain why.

I can explain why you are wrong to accuse me of justifying abuse. BECAUSE i EXPLICITLY SAID THE CHOKING WASN'T JUSTIFIED. A few posts after I said this, you come in -

" The guy, along with you, have been quite clear that you feel there is justification for abusing a spouse."

 

That's easy, I'm against you and anyone else who thinks;

Perhaps you don't understand the english language well and this is just an mis-communication. I shall help you....

When you say, choking is not justified, except... then yes, you are quite clearly stating that there are circumstances that you believe it is justified.

Your words...

 

I am going to try this again.

You seem really determined that you have a point, so I shall point out where you are missing...

I don't care, if it is a woman or a man who is the abuser or the abused, you will notice all of my posts are quite clearly not gender oriented... The word I used repeatedly was spouse, not wife or husband.

I also don't care if this woman hit him in the back of the head with a 2x4, and jumped up and down on his balls... Whether or not she abused him, is not justification for him to abuse her....

You don't stop abuse, with abuse... why is that hard to grasp? That creates a vicious cycle where violence is carried on down through generation after generation.

You stop the cycle by one walking away from it and not allowing it to continue on. Choosing to respond in kind only succeeds in making the responder an abuser as well.

 

To argue otherwise is to proclaim blah blah blah. Typical feminist bull. What you are saying is that if I argue with you, I am automatically blah blah blah. If you provoke someone, you deserve the consequences. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Justification is moot after the fact. You imply her innocence instead of openly admitting to your feelings, which is the same thing. You are not discussing, your preaching.

 

Their responses have been typical feminist one-sided gibberish, and is why the feminist movement has lost so much steam. It's a shame what a few misguided angry individuals (who happen to be a narrow few at best) have done to what was once a very meaningful and necessary social movement.

 

well Jharyn, all you have done is proven you don't read things even when you quote them...

 

After your last post, I'll ignore you until you get your senses back.

 

You've made it quite obvious that you don't grasp the concept that violence towards your spouse is wrong.

You are hung up on attacking anyone who suggests the men abusing women is wrong, simply because women also abuse men.

Even in a case of self defense, if you use violence on your spouse, it is wrong, and there are problems that need to be addressed.

Of course, in this case, the thread was about someone who was charged with abusing his wife. We already know that according to all the facts presented that he did this. It isn't in question.

I am curious though... is this just blind anti-feminism on your part or have you been on the receiving end of an abuse charge that you think was unwarranted?

 

Where did I say there was a justification for abuse? I am anti-lies. Not anti-feminist. The problem is that you cannot handle a differing opinion. We weren't there. We do not know what happened. The legal system in the USA is not about finding the truth. That is why I am questioning the topic of the thread as well as the blind naivete in your posts. Anything else I can clear up for you?

 

PRESS RELEASE January 29, 2007 Contact: Mark Rosenthal, 781-956-1034, One Million False Allegations of Domestic Violence Each Year, Report Finds WASHINGTON, Jan. 29 / U.S. Newswire / – Over one million false allegations of domestic violence are filed each year. These allegations often result in family break-up and the removal of children from their parents, according to a report released today. "A Culture of False Allegations: How VAWA Harms Families and Children" documents how the Violence Against Women Act defines "domestic violence" in broad terms. That has given rise to one million claims of domestic "violence" each year in which physical violence is not even alleged. Elaine Epstein, former president of the Massachusetts Bar Association, is on the record as saying, "Everyone knows that restraining orders and orders to vacate are granted to virtually all who apply ... In many cases, allegations of abuse are now used for tactical advantage." An example of the problem is Dan Iagatta of Foxboro, Mass. A quadriplegic dad who is confined to a wheelchair, he was accused of domestic abuse by his wife and recently ordered to vacate his home. "False allegations of domestic violence have become so widespread that lawyers now call them a legal 'slam-dunk,'" notes RADAR spokesman Ron Grignol. "Some are saying we should pass a David Letterman Protection Act to curb the problem." TV talk-show host Letterman was formally charged with domestic violence after a New Mexico woman accused him of harassing her with mental telepathic messages. Restraining orders are now seen as part of the "gamesmanship of divorce," according to a 2005 article in the Illinois Bar Journal. The RADAR report documents how these false allegations violate civil rights and harm families. As a result, children often lose daily contact with one of their parents. The report was issued by RADAR (Respecting Accuracy in Domestic Abuse Reporting), a research and education organization. The report can be viewed at http://www.mediaradar.org/docs/VAWA-A-Culture-of-False-Allegations.pdf. The document reveals that children who grow up in a single-parent home are greater risk of child abuse, academic failure, and a broad range of social pathologies. The report concludes that VAWA needs to be reformed to become family-friendly. R.A.D.A.R. – Respecting Accuracy in Domestic Abuse Reporting – is a non-profit, non-partisan organization of men and women working to improve the effectiveness of our nation's approach to solving domestic violence. http://www.mediaradar.org.

 

lharyn, you're falling into the same trap he set for me.

He's sidestepped the original point - that he called somebody an abuser for realizing the very things you and I are trying to say. He is now trying to say that violence against a spouse is wrong, nothing more, nothing less. Seams simple enough.

However, what the hell are you supposed to do when somebody hits you on the back of the head with a 2x4 and stomps on your balls? Let them go at it until your'e dead or hospitalized? Hell no, you fight back. I think self defense is justified if there's no other option. Perhaps not "right", as it requires violence against a person, but certainly justified; what other option do you have? Perhaps you could try to run away. But sometimes thats just not going to be a viable alternative.

I was wrong in what I said about the abuse being justified in some cases because I left the possibility open that perhaps the violence committed by the woman was not threatening enough for the man's response to be considered self-defense - for instance, perhaps the girl gave him a good scratch with her nails and thereby provoked him into choking her.

Nonetheless, I say there are cases where the violence on the mans part could be justified. If his life was threatened, then the choking is justified. YOu can't just cut off these possible intricacies, say that violence against a spouse is wrong, period, and call it a day. You're doing exactly what I was talking about - simplifying the problem. If your life is threatened, you are justified in defending it unless doing so requires that you sacrifice a bus load of innocent school children or some such ridiculous scenario in which your life carries less importance than that which you must sacrifice to save it.

You may have caught me in a mistake by some stretch of the imagination, tom. But I have yet to hear a decent justification for labeling the first poster to question the general line of thought in this thread as an "abuser." He definitely never said anything about whether the abuse was justified - only that it was ridiculous the girl was being presumed entirely innocent. For this you called him an abuser - and thats a hell of an insult.

You know, skip recently posted something about cracking down on name calling and other verbal abuse. He basically said said anyone guilty of such would be banned, but their posts would be kept on record so that the subjects of the posts could "sue the shit" out of the person for defamation - and you've definitely accused somebody of a pretty horrible crime for which you have no evidence to show that they've committed. I'm sure the original poster will be nice enough not to "sue the shit" out of you. . . I'm not sure a court would take such a case seriously anyway, to be honest. . . but in any case, you'd best hope skip doesn't find this thread if you like hipforums.

 

look to the left, near the bottom of each post, there is a button that is labelled Report Post...

Feel free to use it.

As long as the both of you try to justify abuse (and no it doesn't matter if you say you aren't while you do it), then my opinion won't change.

as for me setting traps... grow up please. You both chose to come into a feminism forum and attack all things feminist.

 

No one justified abuse. No one attacked all that is feminism. You are just caught in the trap of false feminism by taking all out of context to put forth your own warped agenda. I am not disagreeing with feminism. I've directed my responses at your failed attempts to make a valid point and to ask you to stop putting words in my mouth. But, you go ahead and enjoy the corner you've painted yourself in to. I've grown bored with you.

 

the incidences where abuse was justified are not only still there, but so are the places I quoted them last time I was told I was putting words into people's mouth's.

The incidences where feminsim has been attacked are also still there.

I'll just quote one of them, them as an example to once again prove it is your own words that you accuse me of putting into your mouth.

I could only hope it was true you had grown bored of me and would wander back under your rock.