yeah i can see that...if you kill something and eat it....i'm referring to the waste and treatment of factory animals... animals love us becuase they do live to feed us..not only that of course but most of their life is desinged to feed us or assist us in some way...eggs, oxygen, meat, fur, etc...what i am talking about is that we have abused their natrual love for us...that is just wrong and we should be grateful to them, not abusive...i mena for instance..jim.w, i bet your meal...you were thining, wow, thanks pigeon...you know?! but most people wouldn't even know that the food they eat was given to them..a life lived for the purpose of sustaining another... animlas areincredibly generous and we take advantage of that even to the extent of being cruel...it's ridiculous!
something slightly related that makes me laugh...is that god i really hated my ex boyfriend at one point and when he was eatng meat..i'd say...eating pig then are we? and he'd suddenly look disgusted and throw it away. ha ha. that just showed me that he wasn't aware of what he was eating...if you think about what you're eating..then you'll have a respect for the animals life...and through that you imght decide to hunt your own...or buy animals that had a free range life... becuase basically the animal died for you to live....so show some respect!
Is that what it was "decided" as about? I think you're passing along what you "decided" that it was about, regardless of what the other people involved in that discussion think. Also, there are not too many vegetarians that are vegetarian for moral reasons; many of them are vegetarian for health reasons. And as a vegan, I do mind chemical pest control. Many people mind it; even my family of omnivores minds chemical pest control, which is kind of scary. Moral judgment on whether you should or shouldn't eat meat aside, killing "as much as possible" whether for food or for profit as a butcher is less moral than killing "as much as necessary" for food or profit. There's no real way to get around the issue; killing more than necessary is immoral. Take the argument of Michael Ruse, for example ... that morality is just another evolutionary strategy designed to protect the self from enemies by literally befriending them, and this ensures a greater chance of life and prosperity than struggling singly as most organisms do, for both the individual and all species. If you don't even try to befriend other sentient beings, you're going against the evolutionary logic of morality, and are thus less moral than others. That's according to the philosopher Ruse; that's his argument. Also ... you say previously in your post that you are against factory farming. But here you support "raising as much as your own meat as you can" and call it the "next best thing." If you are raising your own animals so they can be butchered later ... that IS the definition of "factory farming!" You're contradicting yourself here, you can't be against it and support it too. If you value an animal's life differently than us, how can you possibly respect our committment? Have you heard of Jean Paul Sartre's philosophy of existentialism? He shows how every action that you take is an example of how you think life should be lived, implicitly, and that whether you intend to imply that or not, because your actions are percieved by others, they become examples regardless of whether or not you intend them to be examples. So in essence, every time you condone killing an animal, you're saying "this is how you should treat animals." How, then, can you possibly have a "deep" respect for a vegetarian/vegan mindset? Also, you mean to say that you're equating giving death to animals as treating them well?
I understand this post is insulting given the fact that i posted itin the vegetarian forum (i did not think it would spark as much conversation had i posted it in the outdoors forum, though =p--this does not mean i was looking for a fight, however). My thinking behind occasionly hunting is that incase i'm not getting a completely healthy diet, i could maybe replenish myself by eating meat every once in a while. And i would do it with a friend because i dont know that i would want to prepare the dead animal for consumption myself.
Also, i very much disagree with the statement, "animals love us becuase they do live to feed us..not only that of course but most of their life is desinged to feed us or assist us in some way...eggs, oxygen, meat, fur, etc."
maybe he is saying that he has respect for the nutrition his body needs...and he is willing to take on the 'karma' consequence of his actions..by killing the animal himself if he wants to eat it. animals are designed to feed us clothe us and help us do things..like manual work...i mean camels for instance...look perfectly designed for carrying humans across the desert..they've got a seat! personally i wouldn't have the guts to kill an animal and the likelihood is that if i had to...in a forest say i was lost... i wouldnt know how and i'd probably die of starvation. there is an arguement that plants are living creatures and we shouldn't kill them either...but if we don't kill a living thing in our life...we'll die. and i want to live... so am i selfish?, or should i kill myself to stop myself from killing others? or is that killing an innocent creature? one day i'll be worm meat...the worms will be bird meat, the birds will fertilise lettuce,a rabbit will eat it, some baby girl will eat the rabbit... so that makes sense...but humans sporting animals...in fashion...waste...cruelty...that is just a sick psychological trait.
Because, eggs are baby chickens; we dont eat baby fetuses do we? Plants produce oxygen. Animals have fur to keep THEM warm.
no! animals...feed us...caveman style...we didnt have freezer food..but we did hunt and pack animals in ice for storage..all animals do this...suirrels store nuts...birds store worms... what i am referring to is that we eat too much...we are too ungracious about the food we have...we dn't even care where it comes from..in essence we don't care about ourself becuase of that. this is a living world...and we feed each other..help each other..work to make a society where we can all live in... yet in all aspects of living...we abuse what we have. in the example of animals...that give us dairy products...leather...meat...we don't ever say thank you to that animals for living its life for us...for giving its life up to make ours last a little longer..or even just to improve the quality of out life..leather shoes...or cleaner air...fresher soil... instead..we hunt them..treat them like slaves..and then we also do that to each other as well..a different matter. animals are not slaves! we treat them like they are...
it's not that simple! it is impossible for any animal/creature to live an entirely selfish life, designed for the survival of itself only...ecosystem means that we all feed off each other..and without each other..we all die. a rabbit has fur to keep warm..it keeps warm to stay alive so we can eat it one day and have a baby... animals help plans photosynthesise by eating some making room for others.., fertilising them.. lots of things we eat are babies...baby sprouts...lamb...
Well, certainly there are less provoking ways to go about conversation. You could easily have just asked to have an open discussion about it; no need to be provocative. =) We have more moral ways to replenish our diets, like dietary supplements. My dad is pretty big into supplements and health; he has at least 40 bottles of supplements in a cabinet in our house. Vegans and vegetarians can replenish themselves without meat for that reason. If you choose to replenish yourself using the meat you get from hunting, that's still a choice (which Ruse, myself, and many, many people venture as immoral), so it is still sport hunting because you have the choice and capability to not hunt. As an airsoft player and former hunter (sad as I am to say that), I understand how people think it is enjoyable, even to sit out there in the woods for hours waiting for deer. But the implications of murdering another being for the fun of it ... are reason enough to not hunt. Well, not to be a jerk, but if I bend you over on all fours, you've got a seat too! =P Just because an animal has a back that is shaped like a seat doesn't mean that's what its purpose is. Also ... animals are designed to survive, not to feed us and clothe us. We just bend them to our will, which we shouldn't be doing, in my opinion. The argument that plants are "living" doesn't stand up to criticism. A vast majority of people consider "having life" to mean "able to experience life." In order to experience something, you must have a way to collect changing data, and you must be aware of the "self" that is collecting and processing that data. Because plants have no senses, are immobile, and don't contain vital organs, they are more or less just complex functions of the universe. Is it? That's what animals have been doing up until we humans came around. But when the animals didn't have to fight, why would they? "Ecosystem" is what happens when animals are not challenged so much to survive anymore. Then by your logic, let me ask you this question: If you'll agree that all animals are designed to serve the purposes of a higher being ... you're forgetting ... humans are animals too. Who are we designed to serve the purposes of? Who's there to enslave us? Or do you believe that we are the higher power, the "God" or so? If so ... how did we achieve that status? If we evolved in the same way as every other creature?
well i wouldnt be torturing helpless animals, if thats what youre asking. But i would still be taking another life, which is not my right. Maybe i should just try to be happy as a vegetarian.
I support your right to kill anything and everything in your path, if you do not wish to do so, say so and i will gladly do it for you
wow all i can i say is that your very selfish to want to kill an innocent living creature for amusement i cant see how its natural its disburbing really you wouldnt go hunt domesticated animals so why hunt wild animals what have they done?you simply have no real reason too unless your defending yourself we can all live as vegetarians if were careful about protein rememeber the story the dangerous game- it was about hunting humans -scary right? im sure animals dont like it either and ofcourse we have no way of finding out so lets just let em be if we can i know its cheesy but just because they arent humans give us the right to decide their chance at a peaceful life we wouldnt want anyone deciding our fate peace- amy
You mentioned in the story The Dangerous game, in the end the hunted man kills the hunter who hunted him thus....proving what?? that in order to survive he had to kill....what does this mean to a vegan?....well nothing, because you'll just say it was a natural instinct or some shit to defend himself....doesnt matter though a life is gone and your philosophy begins to deteriorate a little.
