How'd You Get Here

When I was little I vaguely had the concept of there's some God and Heaven is in the clouds, because that's what I heard. My parents were made to go to church as kids, but they didn't believe in religion. They wanted me to come to my own conclusions. I thought of going to church once because that's what most people did, but then I realized that Sunday morning was when Ren and Stimpy was on, so I made my choice- the dumb cat and neurotic dog. YAY!

I'm assuming non-religious is meant here as a different thing from non-spiritual. I'm still trying to figure things out (half-assed of course, because I have many other things to worry about). But as far as dumping organized religion, I lost faith in it because I believed so hard in Santa Claus. It was like an encapsulated lesson in rationalization, which couldn't hold up forever. Nothing big or shocking happened to end it, like how a lot of other kids catch their parents putting out presents or something. I didn't ask for the answer, I wasn't told the answer, it just fizzled out on its own.

 

Glower child.

You exist.
This is a miracle of process.
That something so complex.
Exists.

Why do you exist?
Because a god described by human religion says you do.
Or that you exist, but do not yet know why. [agnosticism]

many call agnostics ...cop outs..failures and 'cant decides'.
But , by reason, the method that works. Agnostics are ALL WE CAN BE.

What fool says it is wrong..not to know.?
Not to know is the prerequisite to 'khow'

Every single human being starts with NO empirical knowledge.
We know NOTHING but instictive response.
How do we gain understanding?
By learning.
Religion is not about learning.
It is about accepting.


Occam

 

I think agnostics are the best thing to be. I'm not, I generally fell that I'm somewhere between agnostisism and atheism, though closer to the latter, but people say that I can't be that. Mainly my agnostisism half is based on the fact that I know that I can never know, and I accept that I may be wrong. I just doubt it.

 

Weaselpop

If you are 'somewhere between agnosticism and athiesm'.

Then you are an agnostic.

If you do not know.
If the evidence that your method of thought sees. Cannot be called conclusive.
Then you are an agnostic.
Occam says that any who do not see conclusive 'proof'
Are agnostics.

An agnostic is by occams terms a rational person.
For no conclusive verification of the existence or non-existence of a god exists.

occam

PS
And as 'a god that exists' must have given us reason.
Then we would be fools to ignor it.
God would not give us tools like reason/logic. Tools that work.For no reason.
Nowhere in any religious text does it say that rational method is a false method.

It warps such by saying the devil will mislead you with cunning words.
Those cunnings words.
Are religions description of reason.

 

I'm not an agnostic, cause i don't beleive in god, but i'm not completely atheist, cause I know i can't know, if you get my drift

 

Weaselpop

Semantically correct.

a gnosticism .. is also

Those who have no belief in god.
But cannot prove a god does not exist.

But occam is the last person to suggest a fragmentation of agnosticism into sub sets.

Occam

 

I've been religionless since Day One, and I'm happy for it, since I didn't have to deal with having doctrine shoved down my throat. Both of my parents are atheist - my father is an extreme, staunch atheist who had an extremely Catholic upbringing; he believes the world will be better if religion goes by the wayside... so I'm kind of ingrained with a distrust of organized religion myself. I was an athiest throughout my childhood and up till sometime in high school. Then I shifted to agnostic-humanism, mainly to allow for the fact that you can't exactly prove the existence of God anymore than you can disprove it. So I figure it's something that we can't ever know, and isn't really worth worrying about. I pretty much just view religions at the most to be something that's interesting culturally and nothing more (and some have interesting philosophies here and there, esp. the Eastern ones, though I couldn't buy their package either), like how people regard Greek and Norse mythology today as just something cool to read about.

 

I am a gnostic because I do know and I know I can know. Agnostics are just gnostics waiting to get the scoop.

 

This is fine.

But you cannot 'show' to occam what you "do know".
You can only say it..

And yes. Agnostics are just gnostics waiting to get the scoop.
If there is a scoop.
When occam is scooped.
Then so be it .
untill then.

he is agnostic.
And no number of words without existent grounding, can cahnge that.

Just as you cannot know what RED is.
Untill you see it.....no?

Occam

 

Seem to remember reading that when they tried to teach Helen Keller what red was they had her hold an apple & put her hand near fire & White was a hand full of cotton. Obviously none of us has seen GOD so we would all be as blind as her and nobody has been able to have me hold something in my hand and say ok, this is GOD....cuz it's impossible. Some people would tell me that he made all living things so if I held a flower, a cat, or one of my kids, or seen a sunset then that is all the proof I need. Well that just proves to me that a flower, a cat, my kids, & sunsets are real it doesn't prove that GOD put them there.

 

Your comment describes it very well. Hope your scoop is on its way.

 

My parents raised me to believe what I wanted to believe. They never forced any thoughts of religion on me ever. I love them for that because now I am old enough to research different religions and have my own say on them. My parents are a lot like me in religion sense and I hope to raise my kids that way someday. I think religion should be your choice as an individual.

 

oddly enough i don't consider myself "nonreligeous" at all
(i beleive there might very well be and probably are all kinds of things)
i just don't believe anything that imposes names and
deffinicians on the unknown knows its ass from a hole in the ground.

to quote the rubiyat: "when young i freequented doctor
and saint, yet ever more i left by the same door
at which i went in"

=^^=
.../\...

 

Kharkov.

Hope?

What is that?

Occam

PS
A definition of 'hope' that sounds correct
"hope is the confusion between what is desired, and what is probable"

You hope occam will be 'scooped' . This is meaningless unless a 'scooping' is possible.
It may be.
And occam looks forward to being scooped by the god of religion.
based on its foundation in reality
Just as much as he looks forward to seeing elvis alive in the flesh.

Both show just as much likelyhood of happening.

If elvis showed up however, it would be no big thing.
If the monotheistic god did..With it;s hell and redemption.
Occam might blow his brains out. For reality would all of a sudden.
Have become unsane

 

my concern and my fear is tyranny
we have tyranny because people refuse to connect the dots
not because of one idiology
or all idiolgies except one
not because of one economic theory
or all economic theories except one
not because of one belief
or all beliefs except one
but because people refuse to connect the dots
there my very well be all manor of nontangable forces and beings
and probably are
they have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it
niether does what anyone does or does not believe about them
we have tyranny because people refuse to connect the dots

=^^-
.../\...

 

I've always been non-religious. My parents never attended church, so I was never forced to go like so many people. I may adopt a faith someday, but right now, I don't know of a religion that suits me.

 

"and him saying we didn't, and also that God placed dinosaur bones on Earth to test the faith of "beleivers".


hahahahahahaha, thats possibly the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

I was born to catholic, republican parents. I grew up believing all the shit they told me. When I got into seventh grade, my punk phase began. Though I was only into it because my friends were, it did make me challenge much of my thinking. I think I was 13 or 14, and it just hit me. Religion is complete bullshit. I never told my parents about this revelation, and even continued going to church. I know my brother had tried telling them he was atheist, and they just became more adamant about making him attend mass. Lately they have just stopped telling me to go, they know I won't go when they dont' tell me to, and I work most saturdays and sundays anyway.

 

Nope.

Pentacostal/Charismatic/Evangical Christian

age of 17, I went to a church camp.
Looked around all my friends speaking in tounges and "feeling the spirit".
I realized that i didn't feel anything.
I don't mean just spiritually, but emotionally and intellectually as well.
Started to look into other religions to see if I could convince myself of any of them.

Eventually the idea came to my head "hey, maybe i'm already all that i need to be, and any futher growing will come out of natural life not supernatural life."

I started reading about age of reason and finally (through steps) realized i was an athiest.

 

studying the bible makes me dispise god and see him for what he realy was
studying the ancient scriptures
telling that the gods plural came from the stars the heavens above
and placed man on this planet to serve him
hense the different religions have different gods
but the good news is there all dead and we dont have to serve any of them now
but we sould serve mankind and act in away considerate of others and this planet

 

Have you always been non-religious?

Pretty much...

If not what religion where you?

I was raised christian...

When did you become non-religious?

I don't remember, it was too long ago... i think i was 8...

And what brought you to your current belief system?

Well, after i officially dropped outta christianity, i became a Buddhist... through Buddhism i realised that I would never be happy unless i got rid of religion completely... so i became an atheist...