How To Stop The Alt-Right

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Fueled by Coffee, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    I so admired the nested question I had to respond. Take a bow Sir!

    A wage gap is something my ultra-feminist mother started harping about back in the 80s. For a short while she worked for the state because she had skills as a scheduler. They put her into a computer room with a bunch of cops where they kept track of crooks. She scheduled tape and later disk platter changes. A machine does that job now of course.

    This went on for almost a decade. But then she realized that all the new people they were bringing in, that she was training, were immediately getting promoted above her. And they were all men, so it HAD to be a conspiracy. It HAD to be the wage gap. This was around the time she started protesting, essentially for a living. What she never faced up to was that all of the guys she trained already had years of experience in their field and advanced degrees. Mom graduated from Berkeley with an English degree and a poli-sci minor in the early 70s.

    These "gaps" as they are hailed are usually supported by people who are not willing to look beyond 2 or 3 data points. Which is why their simplistic message is so pervasive. It's almost like a string of slogans for selling hate. But the hate has to have a place to go. Otherwise it's kind of pointless. So, like my mother, it's easier to just grab onto the data point that annoys you the most (in her case, men, followed by the establishment).

    The school achievement gap, which I have been hearing about my whole life, is blamed squarely at racism. Which is exactly why it can't go away. The blame has been assigned to a nebulous concept instead of a body of responsible people. It becomes a smokescreen for the kind of nightmare that befell the DC and Atlanta schools. A generation of black kids fucked out of their primary education by greedy assholes. Sure, racism can be seen as a factor, but racism is not the actual "fault" issue. That lies with the governmental checks and balances that were ignored for over a decade while this sinister scam was taking place.

    The problem with "Rape Culture" is that it has been assigned exclusively to men on a sexual basis. This is particularly problematic when you consider that for decades now we have heard this "rape isn't about sex, rape is about power" mantra. It's a tactic of deflection from reality because nobody wants to think about how the rapist may be enjoying themselves. I know I sure don't. But if we drill down into how rape can be defined, the simple fact is that an unwanted sexual advance is made and escalates into full battery. Either gender is capable of that. Another application might be someone who uses rape evidence as a tool for blackmail when an actual rape didn't occur.


    So if we are going to accept "rape culture" as if it was some kind of ingrained ethno-practice in our society, tarring only the men with it would be grossly sexist. In cases where someone has raped another in an obvious and damaging way or otherwise has been caught without doubt, I think they should be executed. It's how rapists were handled in much of the 19th century and it stops them absolutely. Such a violation of human trust should be handled very harshly. But mine are the words of a psychopath, so take them with a grain of rye.
     
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  2. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    The Black Lives Matter website and leadership makes it pretty clear what the organization stands for as a whole. When you challenged me, I specified in my other posts that I do not think every supporter of BLM is a violent thug. I clarified that to you, and apparently it wasn't good enough for you.

    By the way: You still haven't answered my question as to what Black Lives Matter has done to IMPROVE the problem of higher black incarcerations.

    I'd say most of the alt-right is an online fad that consists of trolls who know how trigger modern-day leftists in just the right way. So much so that the left now sees cartoon frogs as a racist symbol ffs.

    The article is filled to the brim with race baiting and white guilt tripping. Lets re-title it to this: "When Blacks Don't Get It." Yeah I highly doubt NYT would publish anything like that.

    Yet you continue to defend Black Lives Matter. Are you of the group who advocates violence in the streets and the destruction of black communities? Or are you the misinformed?

    I'll answer these questions as soon as you answer mine:

    "Would you rather have identity politics for everybody, or nobody?"

    When I first opened this thread. Post #1 was almost twice as long as it is now. When the others complained TL;DR, I reduced a lot of clutter and excessive detail to make it an easier read. So I must've taken out part where I listed the specific comedians who no longer wanna do stand-up at universities. My bad.

    Dude, have you ever been to college? No student is "forced" to attend a guest speaker or entertainer who comes to campus. Knowing how strictly anti-racist college campuses are these days, I have a hard time believing any "openly racist" speaker would be allowed to present themselves. And yes, student associations have successfully protested and lobbied to the administration to keep speakers off their campus like Ben Shapiro and Christina Hoff Summers.

    Wage Gap: The notion that women make 77cents for every man a dollar make. That's a lie perpetuated by the left.

    Campus Rape Culture: The notion that 1 out of 4 college aged women will be raped on campus. That is a lie perpetuated by feminists.
     
  3. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    What did she do with the money? Did she spend any of it on you? Did she wear pants suits? We may be getting somewhere.
     
  4. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    We've had similar movements in the past, some even more edgy and violent than BLM. The Black Panthers, Malcolm X and others in the Black Power Movement of the sixties come to mind. There were certainly excesses, leading to the expression "long hot summer". (Every summer, there was the expectation of a race riot.) People could (and did) react to it in either of two ways: outrage (how dare they stir up trouble) or understanding (an all too human reaction to a real perception of racial injustice). Fortunately, most people kept their cool and we got beyond that. I don't know quite how, but I think economic and political advances for African-Americans had something to do with it. Black Lives Matter developed as a result of a series of police shootings of young black men, the perception that these were becoming routine, the feeling that the shootings were unjust, and that the so-called justice system was stacked against them. Maybe some of the reactions were unwarranted. How do you think we should respond? Coercively? I don't know that black Lives Matter or any other organization has done a damned thing to improve the problem of higher black incarcerations. Have you or the poor, put upon white guys of the Alt Right done anything constructive about it?
     
  5. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    I think you're probably right on the Campus Rape Culture, simply because I find it hard to believe that that many guys are rapists. But that's just my personal judgment. The statistics on women's pay, on the other hand, seem to have real data behind them from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and other sources. http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2010/ted_20100708.htm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_States http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0193820.html https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/equal_pay_issue_brief_final.pdf So what is your basis for calling them a lie? BTW I personally find the college progressive ideologues annoying. The idea of a Safe Space extended to protecting people from ideas they find disturbing or offensive has no place in a center of higher learning. But c'est la vie. All ideologues annoy me.
     
  6. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Marin county absorbed every dime from my folks. Our family still has a house on Las Flores, across the freeway from the civic center. We use it as a private family hotel. I haven't seen it in nearly a decade, but as I understand it, my weed dealer still lives 2 blocks over.

    Yes, Mom wore polyester double knit pant suits. It must have been torture. I know since I dress and look like any other corporate dork. It's a wonderful cover really. But it does get to be depressing having to wear classic middle class shit.

    It can be profitable.
     
  7. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Eye[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]But the problem is that you continually seem to contradict yourself one moment you say you know that only a few Black live Matter supporters are violent thugs then the next you are saying –[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Yet you continue to defend Black Lives Matter. Are you of the group who advocates violence in the streets and the destruction of black communities? Or are you the misinformed?[my bold][/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Which implies Black lives Matters is all about violent and thuggish behaviour? And that if you support them you must support violent and thuggish behaviour.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]And as I’ve already pointed out - Protest is about raising the issues - it seems to me that the race issue has been ignored by many…it’s like saying that the anti-globalisation protesters should not protest because they are doing nothing to improve relations with the wealthy institutions and individuals that benefitted from such neoliberal policies. [/SIZE]
     
  8. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Eye[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]That seems to be evasion, what parts do you see as specifically involving race baiting and white guilt tripping, I’m not a mind reader, you need to point it out and explain your thinking.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]So again lets us take the article you cited – [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]When Whites Just Don’t Get It[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/31/opinion/sunday/nicholas-kristof-after-ferguson-race-deserves-more-attention-not-less.html[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Can you tell me why you think it is racist and why you would deem it a hate piece.[/SIZE]
     
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  9. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Eye[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]The thing is that such institutions and organisations are usually set up to help what seem to be disadvantaged groups, are you saying you see men and white people in the US as being disadvantaged? There are specific problems involving some racial groups, women, and the LBGT community. What problems do you see as being specific to men and white people?[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]LOL and yet more evasion – as I’ve already pointed out you seem to advocate identity politics then argue against it’s a contradiction that’s makes it hard to understand you position.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]I mean you seem to agree that ‘identity politics’ is about certain institutions and organisations helping what seem to be disadvantaged groups or those with issues. But you say there cannot be any such groups to support men for instance, well in the UK there are Men Groups it’s just they are not that popular.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]As to the promotion of white people do you think they are needed in the US? I mean there is one thing that I’ve discussed with people that is affecting white men and that is gun related suicides and I’ve argued here that it should be tackled through gun control and other social and economic measures. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/12/18/the-shocking-difference-in-how-blacks-and-whites-get-killed-by-guns/?utm_term=.e6232b2c508c[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]So you could say I am involved in ‘identity politics’ that covers white men. [/SIZE]
     
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  10. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]Eye[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]OK so this was never about the alt-right or there views this was something specific to you specifically about university campuses. This seems particularly niche.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]So let’s see if I’ve got this right - the student associations are the ones that book the acts and pay for them and as the ones paying they put in certain rules, and you don’t like those rules, ok I might agree, I’ve been thrown off a number of right leaning forums in my time and it was disappointing that they refused to hear what I was saying.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]BUT the question is would you make laws that force these employers to take on an employee that they didn’t want to employ? [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]For example if I was having a kids party and want to hire a comedian could I not refuse to give the gig to someone that said they were going to swear a lot and use sexually explicit material? I suppose I could just get a Frozen DVD instead.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]And what about other venues I mean comedy clubs, bars etc could they not refuse slots to people that were very openly racist which you say you would not support?[/SIZE]
     
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  11. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    [SIZE=11pt]As pointed out there does seem to be data that show there is an income gap between men and women [/SIZE]



    [SIZE=11pt]This seems to stem from a problem I’ve often highlighted, on how reports that say one thing can be interpreted and even manipulated to seem to say another.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Headlines have to be short but that means they can often be simplistic and the subject they are covering can be complex.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Editors and mischief makers can use that to their advantage knowing many people will read the headline and possible the first paragraph and never actually read the complex report the headline is based on.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Ok so let us take as our example the dramatic New York Times headline [/SIZE]

    ‘1 in 4 Women Experience Sex Assault on Campus’

    [SIZE=11pt]The problem is that wasn’t really true [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-earp/1-in-4-women-how-the-late_b_8191448.html[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]A more accurate headline would be –[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Approximately 1 in 4 of 19% of a Non-Representative Sample of Women Who Responded to a Non-Representative Survey of 27 Colleges (Out of Roughly 5,000) Reported Experiencing Sexual Assault, Where “Sexual Assault” is Taken to Mean Anything from Being on the Receiving End of an Unsolicited Kiss to Forcible Penetration at Gunpoint, Regardless of the Particular Context [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Obviously, that’s too long to be practical - so let’s see if we can think of something shorter:[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]Latest Campus Sexual Assault Survey Paints Complicated Picture: Report Stresses Methodological Limitations [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]That’s about right in terms of accuracy ... but it wouldn’t sell very many papers. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]And it wouldn’t get people angry over its supposed accuracy the thing is if anyone fell for the [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]1 out of 4 claim they were had – my advice is to always try and seek out the original report. [/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]The thing is that you seemed to have believed the 1 in 4 figure was wrong but not because you had looked into it but because its what 'feminist' say and you don't believe them, your theory therefore seemed to be based in prejudice not facts and that i find worrying.[/SIZE]
     
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  12. Okiefreak

    Okiefreak Senior Member

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    https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/b4997438-817c-3fc8-a504-3fed13e39e84/ss_ku-klux-klan-members-drive.html
    http://www.businessinsider.com/anthony-karens-photos-of-the-modern-day-ku-klux-klan-2014-4
    https://mic.com/articles/121628/7-facts-about-the-kkk-operating-in-america-today#.ViuwQUPyf
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/general-article/klansville-faq/
     
  13. GeorgeJetStoned

    GeorgeJetStoned Odd Member

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    Looks like the same old tired speculation. They claim "The KKK" has thousands of "members" and yet, they can't get 20 of them to protest in the same place. They are folklore with a fan base, nothing more.

    But, just in case The KKK is actually on the way back to take over America (bwahahahahahahaha) it might be a good idea to stock up and pickled eggs, pig's feet and pork rinds. As a distraction in case they attack!!!!
     
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  14. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Indeed we have had violent black advocacy groups in the past like the ones you mentioned. Yet the history books rewarded the freedom fighters who led the peaceful protests of MLK and the civil rights movement, and don't seem to give as much credence to the black power movement.

    The problem with Black Lives Matter is that many (but not exactly all) of the protests and riots that have started were based on false information and media lies. Michael Brown never said "hands up don't shoot." And Keith Lamont Scott was ordered to drop his gun; he wasn't holding a book despite what the rumors said.

    I don't consider myself alt-right. However, I do see myself as a fellow traveler with them on a lot of current issues. But one thing they haven't done was spread the contrived belief that all police are racist against blacks. It's ironic considering how some of those cops who shot those black men, which led to these riots, were black cops all along. Plus they also seem to be more aware of the real statistics about various races being murdered by cops, and the rate of that said race being murdered by members of other races. It might come to surprise lots of people that cops kill more white people annually than blacks, and each race is more likely to murder other members of the same race. http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/new-doj-statistics-on-race-and-violent-crime/
     
  15. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    The problem with these gender wage gap statistics is they rarely, if ever, take into account that women typically seek a more balanced work/social life, and work less overtime than men. Plus they get pregnant and have children, which demands more time away from work for motherly needs. These wage gap statistics basically compare all the earnings earned by men, and all the earnings by women and divide them up and run with that. Besides, Barack Obama signed and passed the Equal Pay executive order that was supposed to stop this non-existent phenomenon. And before that there was a similar bill that passed in 1963.

    As far as safe space culture goes, I do think there are plenty of progressives out there with enough common sense to see past the stupidity of it. I just wish more of them would be vocal about denouncing it. Safe spaces are actually more harmful for people with real traumas (not the "traumas" a fringe leftist experiences when they hear the wrong opinion). The best way to overcome the traumas and PTSD of anything is gradual exposure therapy, not sheltering away from it forever.
     
  16. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Not evasion, I was trying to get an answer for a couple pages now, so we could discuss this further.
    It appears you somewhat lean toward identity politics for everybody. Good, we're getting somewhere. I can understand your reasoning for it too.

    Personally, I'd rather not have identity politics for anybody and that we judge people not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character.

    Now as promised I'll address your other talking points:

    The fact that there there are plenty of identitarian politics offered for everyone else except straight white men, means artificial discrimination has been created. For example, there are plenty of scholarship grants offered to those groups you listed, but practically none at all for poor white men. Identity politics is a perversion of thought that has led many to believe everyone is disadvantaged unless they have a straight white male privilege.

    You bring up the issue of suicide rates being higher for men. Yet when domestic shelters for men get opened, they are met with threats and protest. http://womenspost.ca/owner-of-shelter-for-abused-men-and-children-commits-suicide-after-financial-ruin-ridicule/
     
  17. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    No, I don't think there should be any law forcing any employer to hire someone they don't want. You can reject the racist entertainer to come to a kids' party you're hosting if you wish. But that is not the point.

    I looked back at my posts and I don't see where I listed any examples of colleges blacklisting any openly racist speakers from speaking. Milo, Ben Shapiro, and Christina Hoff Summers aren't racist, yet they've had their events blocked and shut down by student unions and organized protests. Violating a whiny loser's safe space doesn't constitute racism. Yet when you triviliaze the definition of racism to be equivilent to a non-leftist indoctrination, you're gonna result in an even bigger alt-right backlash (the point of the thread)

    *sigh*
    This gets debunked time after time. And they still push this narrative.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oqyrflOQFc

    Feminists use statistics like a fish uses a bicycle

    The problem is that when these fringe crazies trivialize the definition of rape to encompass any form of sexual aggression or unwanted advancement, then yeah, the 1 in 4 statistic would probably be real if we changed the definition like that. When I was in college, they told us that even if you have consensual sex after alcohol touches a woman's lips, it's still considered rape. Logically, this would criminalize what happens after every romantic dinner served with a glass of wine. But this is the problem with modern third wave feminism vilifies natural male sexuality as predatory, and distances the genders further apart. Especially when they lie to young girls by telling them every man is a potential rapist.

    Edit: I should also add, that by getting rid of these feminist lies, that too is another step to take that will help you nuke the alt-right into oblivion.
     
  18. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    For starters, the headline comes across as racist because it seems based off the false assumption believed by many, that no white person will ever know what oppression is like.

    Then it's followed up by ridiculing any credence toward anti-white racism from a PDF article they linked. There are black people problems, as there are white people problems that both exist in this world of identity politics. But rather than having a pissing contest over which one is a bigger victim, why don't we actually work together toward actually straightening out these issues?
     
  19. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    I think there are some protestors who don't realize what monstrosity they are supporting. They are idiots who are virtue signaling to their friends, because thanks to the mainstream media, they believe that not supporting black lives matter could make you sound like a racist.

    Yes but when you have a sniper in Dallas targeting cops and white people in the name of black lives matter, who is benefiting?
     
  20. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Bill Maher gets it! Maybe there is some hope for the left in defeating the alt-right after all.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3-uNxmNj5o&list=LLg7w7yXIwqUj6_QpqvjI81A&index=1


    Political correctness is the religion of the fringe left. Defacing holy imagery to evoke reactions has always been a hobby of trolls. Worshiping political correctness gave rise to the alt-right.
     

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